Striped bloodred morphs????

I can see this coming, people selling supposed striped bloodred morphs that didn't come from parents that each are homo bloodred morphs but but where het for both the bloodred morph and stripe with out letting the buyer know that they need to be proven first.
It gets real difficult when both bloodred morphs and stripes and motleys share the same attributes. My golddust stripe has a yellow belly that doesn't go the entire length and my motley sunglow has spattering of red down the belly just like bloodreds and of course the stripes and some motleys have the head pattern of a bloodred.
Don't get me wrong I have a motley fire from Rob (Bayou Reptiles) that's got a head pattern far above even most bloodreds, but the first thing Rob said to me was "needs to be test bred" before knowing for sure.
What does everyone think, is this going to be a problem?
Thanks for your imput.
John

I've wondered about this myself and have a question to go with it.

What can you see when looking at a supposed bloodred stripe.
Do you see the stripe pattern, but are unsure if it is diffused?
Or do you see diffusion, but would be unsure on the striping?
Or is it just one big confusion?

In my mind I theorize that you would probably see the striping but wouldn't be sure on the diffusion, not sure if I'm right.

I think the stripe pattern is quite obvious. You just may not be able to tell if it is a normal stripe or a bloodred stripe.

Nanci said:

I think the stripe pattern is quite obvious. You just may not be able to tell if it is a normal stripe or a bloodred stripe.

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That's what I see anyway. BTW when I say bloodred morph stripe it could be a Sttriped Avalance, striped fire, striped Hypo blood, bloodred stripe,golddust blood stripe or ghost bloodred stripe.
John
P.S. Sorry for being so wordy, have been sick for the past several weeks which gives me to much time to think.

John this is a perfect example of why one should always buy from a respected/reputable breeder. There are a lot of people out there that haven't a clue when it come to genetics and test breeding etc. I know you have seen your share of them too. The diffusion vs motley or stripe issue is a sticky one. I wouldn't buy an animal as a diffused stripe or motley unless the seller could assure me it was exactly that. I have Bloodred stripes, Fire Stripes and Normal stripes, Amel Stripes that are tough to tell apart, especially as hatchlings. I personally would not sell an animal I could not positively identify as a specific phenotypical morph. A good number of this year's hatchlings fell into the "what the heck is this" category and I'm not selling them until I know for sure. Things like the Bloodreds that look suspiciously like Ultra Bloodreds or the Lavenders that I'm pretty darn sure are Charcoal Lavs. "Pretty darn sure" isn't enough when some one is buying an animal for a breeding project. I have sold some of these animals to friends who wanted to mess around with them. But these are people I know well and trust that they aren't going to pass the animals off as something they are not. Sadly I think there are a good number of Normal stripes that are already out there posing as Bloodred Stripes.
The day we can do a simple blood test to prove the genetic make up of an animals will be soooo sweet. Until then buyer beware!
Terri

crackerhead said:

John this is a perfect example of why one should always buy from a respected/reputable breeder.
Terri

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agree!!!!!!

I completely agree with Terri ( as usual LOL)

I have a breeding pair of corns, a male bloodred het for amel, anery and stripe, and a female fire het for anery and stripe. Any stripes I get out of those 2, I KNOW for a fact are bloodred stripes.

I also have 3 males that are striped and at had the above male as their sire, so I know they are het blood, but so far have not been tested. Until I know for sure what they are, they are striped het blood......

starsevol said:

I also have 3 males that are striped and at had the above male as their sire, so I know they are het blood, but so far have not been tested. Until I know for sure what they are, they are striped het blood......

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Too bad Ruby can't be three places at once this spring! But in the future I'd consider sending her up to you for a loan. Unless she was too intimidating, then you could send a boy down here.

Yup, this will always be a risk and you certainly can't identify POSITIVELY by just looking! I have been breeding hets to hets for the last three years. I take EDUCATED guesses as to what they are, and may mark them on my pricelist as "blood stripe, granite stripe, blood mot" but when someone is actually looking at getting one I let them know that I have priced them lower than I would a DEFINITE animal due to the fact they MAY not be what I have them listed as.

FINALLY from the first years breeding four years ago, I have a male keeper which was test bred to a blood last season and proved out DEFINITE blood motley stripe. I also have a number of yearling girls which are growing out nicely who I'll also test breed in two years just to make sure they are what I THINK they are, then I can FINALLY sell them knowing DEFINITELY what they are! I SOOO can't wait, fire stripes, blood stripes, granite stripes, blood mots, and granite mots! Gee, guess I should hold back an avalanche female this year eh?..

Nice thing is that by next year I'm sure the prices will also be much more attainable for the average Joe so should be lots of happy new corn owners! lol

Rebecca

John, I've been following this thread since you first posted. Yes, I do read far more than I post.
From the receiving end, I couldn't possibly be more frank or succinct than Terri. Buy from reputable breeders.
I have read before the subject alluded to, about not really being able to tell, for example, a nice hatchling sunglow stripe from a nice fire stripe. And, the somewhat similar situation of not being able to tell a homozygous ultra from an ultramel. Both scenarios, of course, requiring test breeding to know for sure. In the former case, I seem to remember the breeder selling the stripe at a lower price not knowing if it was homozygous for diffusion.
I am a long way from breeding snakes, but have some fine specimens with which to do so if and when the time comes. There are several ways to get to fire stripe, and if that is the desired end, it seems simplest for my brain to stick with pairings of snakes, both of which are homozygous for diffusion. That's just me,...IMHO. As time goes by, I may have the room, the time, and the interest in getting more experimental. Note many "if's" involved here.
With the economy the way it is, producing surplus hatchlings (i.e., snakes with not positively known genetics) seems superfluous. Unless one wants, and has room, and can afford to keep all they don't sell. Or maybe shouldn't sell.

As for whoever else it might be, passing off a striped snake as diffused as well, and not being positively sure,....shame on them.