HELP!! What in the world is this?

I took Tula out to feed her tonight, she refused, which is common for her. She refuses before blue, in blue and until she sheds. Last week she only ate because I warmed the mouse in broth.

Anyway, I come back to see if she ate her mouse and I see the mouse is still there and shes got a lump in her belly that looks like she already ate. Her last meal was last Thursday, thats 8 days.........why does she still have a lump? What the heck is this?

You can see it here......



And when she crawls or lays a certain way, you cant see it at all, it goes away.........which is probably why I didnt see it when I scooped her out of her viv...



Here it is protruding from her belly....





Its weird, it looks like a mouse in there thats split in half(her belly is clear).......It cant be?

There is no way its an impaction, she eats in her plastic tub, and I never let anything with a mouse scent touch the inside of the viv....it doesnt look like aspen anyway.....

Her warm temps are 85, she is housed alone, and she pooped this week, although it was smaller then usual....

Im freaking out, what is it?

Hello!
When you are sure that this could no way be a mouse, go to a vet as soon as possible. It looks real strange, perhaps she has an infection that causes a swelling. Could she have broken/dislocated some ribs?
The fact that the "swelling" disappears on certain movements is strange and points to something different than a feeding lump...
She is a beautiful nice snake, you should really get her to a vet (or at least call a vet immediately and ask for a qualified advice), infections or injuries of the internal organs ca be quite dangerous...

Much luck that it's nothing severe!!

I checked on her this morning and there was again a little poop in there. Her lump doesnt have those indentations sticking out, it looks as though she ate a small meal and the lump is curved now. You wouldnt necessarily notice it if you looked at her.

Ive been doing searches on here all morning on weird lumps that shouldve been long gone and appear to be food....Has anyone ever heard of a snake being extremely slow in digestion? It was a little large but nothing she couldnt handle.

http://cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65648&highlight=lump+days+feeding

Its almost like the mouse is digesting in pieces, like it broke off in the 3 slits I made in it before I gave it to her as she digested it. Shes been in her warm hide since she last ate, coming out to poop and drink....which is weird because she is usually climbing or curled up beside her water dish.

I wish I could give you some reassuring words, Justine, but I don't know what that is. I've seen situations where it seemed that the onset of a shed cycle delayed the elimination of waste, but those lumps are pretty high up. I also had a situation where a snake developed a strange indentation and bulge where it looked like a few ribs may have been broken, though I couldn't figure out what would have caused such an injury. But it was nowhere near as pronounced as Tula's condition. I don't think you can rule out impaction. Food itself can cause impactions even if ingested substrate is not the cause. Then there's the possibility that she has a twisted intestine. There are endless possiblities.

I guess you SHOULD get her to a vet soon, although if I were you, I know I'd probably monitor the situation for at least a week before taking that step. Best of luck. Keep us posted.

Poor Tula, I hope she's ok. I would get her to a vet as soon as possible.

Roy Munson said:

I wish I could give you some reassuring words, Justine, but I don't know what that is. I've seen situations where it seemed that the onset of a shed cycle delayed the elimination of waste, but those lumps are pretty high up. I also had a situation where a snake developed a strange indentation and bulge where it looked like a few ribs may have been broken, though I couldn't figure out what would have caused such an injury. But it was nowhere near as pronounced as Tula's condition. I don't think you can rule out impaction. Food itself can cause impactions even if ingested substrate is not the cause. Then there's the possibility that she has a twisted intestine. There are endless possiblities.

I guess you SHOULD get her to a vet soon, although if I were you, I know I'd probably monitor the situation for at least a week before taking that step. Best of luck. Keep us posted.

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Dean, what do broken ribs look like? That bulge is pronounced like that when she begins to slither and I guess she contracts herself to move, when she stops, it goes away and looks like this..




I went in and took some more pics....One thing I noticed, her belly, right where that is, is very soft when I push on it, her sides are hard I guess because of her ribs (I didnt even know they had ribs to be honest) If it was an impaction, wouldnt the lump be hard all around?



One thing I left out, when I removed her from her viv last night, I cleaned everything out. Her suction cup plant that she sits in all the way at the top, was laying in her water bowl, I doubt it wouldve yanked off the side unless she was in it....She is in a standard 20 gallon, thats about a 16 inch fall.

Could this be some sort of injury? If it is broken ribs, do they heal on their own?

I put her back in her viv now because I dont want to poke at her anymore, but the only vet thatll see snakes is at The Animal Medical Center and its a grand to walk in the door. Not that I wouldnt spend it.....Im torn becase I dont want to wait either, I know by the time a snake shows its sick its usually too late....Just thought Id update you with what I saw today and see what you thought...





Im not oppose to bringing her into Manhattan, I just know Ill end up spending $2,000 for her to see a herp vet and she'll die from stress before I get her home. Anyway, Im going to try and find someone in Brooklyn.

wow

Maybe she is full of some kind of internal parasites eating away at her like maggotts! Ewwww Take her to the vet! :shrugs:

JustineNYC said:

Dean, what do broken ribs look like? That bulge is pronounced like that when she begins to slither and I guess she contracts herself to move, when she stops, it goes away and looks like this..

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I can't tell you what broken ribs look like for sure. I only had one captive snake where I suspected it, and I've seen what I thought were broken ribs on some wild garters as well. But I'm not sure that's what it was. I imagine that the snake might look "bowed out" on the sides and slightly indented beneath the affected area if ribs were broken. But I wouldn't imagine that it would look as extreme as what you're seeing on Tula.

I went in and took some more pics....One thing I noticed, her belly, right where that is, is very soft when I push on it, her sides are hard I guess because of her ribs (I didnt even know they had ribs to be honest) If it was an impaction, wouldnt the lump be hard all around?

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Skeletally, a snake is almost ALL ribs, connected to a zillion vertebrae. I really don't have enough experience with this sort of thing to give you a conclusive answer, but like you, I'm GUESSING that an impaction would be hard all around. Then there's always the fear of cryptosporidium. This causes a thickening of the stomach wall. But I don't know if that would cause the multi-lump look that Tula's showing. I would keep her away from other herps and maintain the best sanitary conditions possible until you know more. If she doesn't resume feeding, or if she starts regurging, then you'll have more to worry about.

One thing I left out, when I removed her from her viv last night, I cleaned everything out. Her suction cup plant that she sits in all the way at the top, was laying in her water bowl, I doubt it wouldve yanked off the side unless she was in it....She is in a standard 20 gallon, thats about a 16 inch fall.

Could this be some sort of injury? If it is broken ribs, do they heal on their own?

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I wouldn't imagine that a 16" fall could do an adult corn much damage. However, injury can't be ruled out. I don't think a vet would do much about broken ribs. You can't really bind a snake like you might a human with broken ribs.

I put her back in her viv now because I dont want to poke at her anymore, but the only vet thatll see snakes is at The Animal Medical Center and its a grand to walk in the door. Not that I wouldnt spend it.....Im torn becase I dont want to wait either, I know by the time a snake shows its sick its usually too late....Just thought Id update you with what I saw today and see what you thought...

Im not oppose to bringing her into Manhattan, I just know Ill end up spending $2,000 for her to see a herp vet and she'll die from stress before I get her home. Anyway, Im going to try and find someone in Brooklyn.

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It's a tough decision. I have to be honest, and I may get some crap for saying it, but I wouldn't spend $2000 for vet bills on a snake, even if the snake was super-high-end. I spent a few hundred on an egg-bound female a few months ago, so I'm not a heartless cheapskate. I ended up having to put her down anyway. Maybe you can look around for a less expensive alternative. My vet does herps, and she'd charge me about $60 to look at the snake. At that cost, I wouldn't hesitate to bring a snake in. But a grand to walk in the door, with no guarantee that they'd even be able to help, would be too much for me. Keep an eye on her. I wouldn't make any big decisions until she's shed and you've attempted to feed her again.

stephen said:

Maybe she is full of some kind of internal parasites eating away at her like maggotts! Ewwww Take her to the vet! :shrugs:

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Well thank god you posted, could you have told me to seek a vet without being a mean 9 year old or does that just come with being graced with your presence?

Anyway, thank you Dean, youve been alot of help

here's a post I did awhile back w/pics. http://cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65648

Sorry to say, mine died about a month later. I'd go to a vet. I didn't and well she didn't live.

I have an appointment at the animal medical center on Monday, the doctor who is a snake specialist isnt in on the weekends.

Can I ask when your snake died? You originally posted on 3/31 and then again on 4/14 2 weeks later, a month after that wouldve been 2 months with no food? Did she not keep anything down after the lump appeared?

I bet you it's just crap. My adult female bloodred occasionally looks like she's been fed with a small rat---and that sometimes persists for a few weeks. Never been a full on problem, and always a nice pile of poo after the lump disappears from her.

:shrugs:

I was going to suggest it could be impaction, but it seems to be "digesting". In saying that, could it be a foreign object ie a bit of newspaper or substrate?

I love her name btw, I wonder why lol.

Tula_Montage said:

I was going to suggest it could be impaction, but it seems to be "digesting". In saying that, could it be a foreign object ie a bit of newspaper or substrate?

I love her name btw, I wonder why lol.

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I actually got her name from you so thanks LOL

She is on aspen but like I said she doesnt eat in her viv....would she just chomp on aspen out of the blue like that?

I hope it's just slow digestion. I'd be freaking out. At least you have photographs of it, so you can watch the progress, if any. I hope she's ok.

I dont think its "nothing" anymore. Tula ate last night around 10 and then this morning I found her mouse in her water dish. Something is definitely wrong with her, Iv ehad her for a year and not one regurge til now. I gave her a tiny mouse too and it didnt pass through that....Well see what the dr says tomorrow.

I have to take the train into the city, can I put aspen in her tub to minimize her bumping around cause Im going to be walking....

Thats kind of weird.. Maybe she will have crap before you take her to the vet.. If she does, bring a sample of the poop along for some testing.. I can only guess, but that could be a hugh parasite load, or some strange abcess or infection.. I certainly hope it is not crypto...

It should not be to much, to get an acid stain test done on the sample which should help ID the parasite if there is one, and of course they should be able to do a slide under the microscope too for a minimal cost..


Regards.. Tim of T and J

when I originally posted, that was when the lump was noticed and she regurged for the first time. The week before she had eaten( never missed a meal) and 3 days later she "pooped" as normal. I feed ever 5 days, the lump was there on day 5. I had never fed on any substrate, always in a seperate bin.
When she died I did not have it in me to cut her open and see what was the problem. Wish I had now, so maybe I could help someone else out. Sorry.

It could very well be an internal blockage thats not allowing her to digest properly. This happened to a little lavender motley I got about a year ago. She couldn't gigest food properly and it was getting stuck so we had to manually put it in (as she was a bad feeder) and manually get it out through massage. No life for a snake so we euthanised her. It could have been constricted intestinal passages. We never had an autopsy done. But I think the best advice is to get an xray done to determin whats in there and to check for any blockage.

Please let us know what the vet says..