Political Email

[starsevol]

Starsevol -That's what I get for even clicking on a thread titled 'political email' in the first place

Yah Jen, that'll learn ya
(no offense intended)

 

[jazzgeek]

I agree with some, but some are a little... rude? The statements remind me of Dale.

If you're referring to me, would you care to explain?

regards,
jazz

 

[Matthew]

The only thing I'm going to say in regards to this thread is this...I've been denied two jobs because I can't speak Spanish. I live in a country who's language is 'supposedly' English, yet I can't get the <insert expletive here> job that I wanted because I can't cater to someone else's communication needs. Last time I checked, we were just north of Mexico. Clearly I'm confused, though...

I'm so sick of it...I'm seriously thinking of emigrating. Seriously.

 

[tanner123]

I can understand that point of view Janine as I am half native American (Navajo Paiute). I think the meaning of what was posted in the thread pertains to people that are here ILLEGALLY. The problem occurs when we have millions of ILLEGAL immagrants here that ILLEGALLY reap the benefits of the social stucture of America that was designed and intended for the people that are here LEGALLY. What would happen to the UK's economy if people (illegal immagrants) started showing up on your shores by the millions? Not wanting to take the correct action to become LEGAL citizens. Taking jobs from legal citizens for less pay. Using your healthcare free of charge. Taking advantage of the welfare system that was designed to help LEGAL Americans. Stealing the rights and laws that were designed for the LEGAL citizens of the United States.


You are mistaken. There is only one official language of the United States and that is ENGLISH. When immigrants were coming here in troves in the late 1800's and early 1900's one of the main requisites of becoming an American is that you had general knowledge of the English language and knew how to speak it.


Because I agree with Joe does not mean that I have a Confederate flag in my truck, hell I am a Yankee. But at the same time who am I to say what somebody can and can not hang in the back of their truck or wave from a flagpole? That is something called heritage and pride in their beliefs. You make a statement about having a Confederate flag in the rear window but I am sure you don't have a problem with other people having a Rainbow bumper sticker or Stop Glogal Warming or Impeach Busch on theirs. That is why this is the greatest country in the world because you have the right as a LEGAL citizen to be free and have your own beliefs.


I think you are taking this all wrong. I didn't see one thing that was anti-immigration. What I do see is something being said about ILLEGAL immigration. You are right in the fact that this country, as we know it today, was based on immigration and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If someone wants to become a citizen of the United States they should have to do it by the laws of this country. People shouldn't be able to walk through knee deep water to come here and abuse the system and laws that are put in place for REAL, LEGAL Americans. As for the second part of your statement. I can see this from both sides. As stated earlier I am half Navajo Paiute but I am also half Irish. When my Great Grandparents came here they were on Ellis Island for almost six months to become neutralized as a US citizen. Why would they do this? Because they were law abiding people who respected the laws of this sovereign nation. They were also willing to endure this because they knew it was right. I do have some mixed feelings as well about your statement. I am half Native American and I can take what you said as an insult if I so choose to. What do you mean there would be no America? Basically what you are saying is that us "Stupid Injuns" wouldn't have been able to do the same. If you remember correctly we already had a nation before it was taken from us. Yes we weren't as technically advanced as the Europeans at the time but then again we didn't have to be. Things may have been very different if the Europeans came to this land and treated us as equals instead of savages. Things would be very different indeed. But to say that America wouldn't exist if European immigrants didn't come here is absurd. It may be a little different then what we have today (probably for the better) but nonetheless it would still be a great nation of laws, rights and privledges.
Jay

well my grandparents came from germany after leaving poland during ww2 if i'm not mistaken. and i wouldn't neccesarily have a problem with someone having a global warming sticker or the bush one i'd say my opinion on it and that is i don't believe in global warming or any of those things, but a problem with them having it there no. But my land is not the same as yours as i am in canada again filled with laws rights and privledges but further north and in my opinion a better country then america, Although i am kinda biased on that

 

[insomniac101]

I've been denied two jobs because I can't speak Spanish.

I have too. Seems kind of backwards, doesn't it?

Kathy

 

[SnakesRule1234]

If you're referring to me, would you care to explain?

regards,
jazz

Hm... how can I say this without going to the "bad side" with anyone. The statements are kind of like your online personality (I don't know you in real life so I cannot say that is exactly your personality). A little "tough" and "too bad I don't care what you think" etc. Nothing bad about it, just reminds me of you.

Oh yeah, and about the whole "With/without Immigrants there would be no America" thing. I think you could go either way. Most scientists think that people first appeared in the Middle East/Africa area, and that Native Americans cross the land bridge where Siberia and Alaska is. That makes them immigrants, except there was not laws and government like we have today to call them illegal.
Now, if it wasn't for the explorers, we would still have those Natives here and their really cool (IMO) culture. Vikings were first to explore North America but it was those French, British and Spanish (and whoever else came) that made America, America. They killed all them Indians, destroyed the land, made slaves a big business (at the time) and then made laws and stuff... Maybe America would have been better without them..? :shrugs:

For these days, I stay with what I said before on immigrants. My mom and I came here legally... I took that example, before, from what we went through.

I have yet to learn everything about the subject but that's my opinion for now.
I am sure none of this makes sense but.. oh well. It's hard to put everything you want to say into 5 minutes of writing.

 

[Messorius]

You are mistaken. There is only one official language of the United States and that is ENGLISH. When immigrants were coming here in troves in the late 1800's and early 1900's one of the main requisites of becoming an American is that you had general knowledge of the English language and knew how to speak it.

Actually, the US doesn't have an official language. The lion's share of those spoken does belong to English, however, and there are organizations geared towards having it declared so.

 

[Messorius]

Silly no edits! Several states have made it the individual state's official language, and several are state officially or de facto(in practice but not by law) bi and tri-lingual.

 

[susang]

The only thing I'm going to say in regards to this thread is this...I've been denied two jobs because I can't speak Spanish. I live in a country who's language is 'supposedly' English, yet I can't get the <insert expletive here> job that I wanted because I can't cater to someone else's communication needs. Last time I checked, we were just north of Mexico. Clearly I'm confused, though...

I'm so sick of it...I'm seriously thinking of emigrating. Seriously.

I'm sorry for you, but no sorrier then I was for myself, which wasn't much. In the mid 70's I wanted a job as head pm nurse in ER, a man with fewer qualifications got it because he had a wife and one child ( he was head of house). I had three kids with a dead beat dad, go figure.

 

[Nova_C]

What's so contradictory about the phrase right-wing ignorance? I was just being specific. If someone made a thread about how food, clothing and shelter should all be free I would call that left-wing ignorance.

So please, enlighten me how right-wingers can't be ignorant.

 

[Snake Dave]

I can understand that point of view Janine as I am half native American (Navajo Paiute). I think the meaning of what was posted in the thread pertains to people that are here ILLEGALLY. The problem occurs when we have millions of ILLEGAL immagrants here that ILLEGALLY reap the benefits of the social stucture of America that was designed and intended for the people that are here LEGALLY. What would happen to the UK's economy if people (illegal immagrants) started showing up on your shores by the millions? Not wanting to take the correct action to become LEGAL citizens. Taking jobs from legal citizens for less pay. Using your healthcare free of charge. Taking advantage of the welfare system that was designed to help LEGAL Americans. Stealing the rights and laws that were designed for the LEGAL citizens of the United States.

You obviously don't read about anything outside your own shores, because that's EXACTLY what's happening in our country now. I'm all for immigration as long as it's economically controlled, it can bring great cultural and economic benefits, and is often the driving force behind an economic boom, which is what happened with the US (as I'm sure you know).

You are mistaken. There is only one official language of the United States and that is ENGLISH. When immigrants were coming here in troves in the late 1800's and early 1900's one of the main requisites of becoming an American is that you had general knowledge of the English language and knew how to speak it.

English isn't the official language of the US, only of 28 states, but there's no official federal language, due to the nation being so ethnically diverse.

That is why this is the greatest country in the world because you have the right as a LEGAL citizen to be free and have your own beliefs.

America is far from being the greatest country in the World, no nation has claims to that as there are so many different aspects that must be looked at and assessed. I understand you're being patriotic but that statement offends me and many others, I'm sure. There are aspects of America that are very good, there are also aspects that are not very good, just as it is with every country, but no nation can be 'the best', it's not a competition.

Oh and by the way, many countries (that aren't totalitarian) have the right to free speech and the ability to practice their beliefs free of oppression, that doesn't make them unique or 'the best', it just means they're adhering to a set of logical human rights.

All the best

David

 

[diamondlil]

The original post was aimed at minorities, not specifically illegal immigrants. the statements against 'Miss black America'- does that pertain, by any stretch of the imagination, to immigrants? 'Girl Scouts'- are they crossing your borders in droves?
Excuses for ugly thoughts are what make people tie themselves in knots to justify the ugliness.
This is just like the thread about minorities a little while ago.
In response to the questions directed at me about illegal immigrants here, nope, I don't agree with the support given by my govt to them. I do think people should have to earn their living instead of living off those who are working, if they are able to. Economic migration is fine if the people bring their skills and abilities to wherever they are heading, it enriches cultures.
In my job, this has been a hot potato. Huge drives to recruit qualified nurses from the Phillippines, India, Sri Lanka, Hong Kong etc to deal with shortages, coupled with an increase in recruiting trainees led to a shortage of available jobs for newly-qualifying English trained nurses. The govt here then reneged on agreements in granting citizenship to the foreign nurses.
In many cases these nurses have settled here, bought houses, had children and worked their backsides off to get slapped in the face. As a result they are now leaving in droves. So the newly qualified nurses have posts available.
Unfortunately, a newly qualified nurse who speaks with a cut-glass accent is no match for the nurse with better training and 10 years experience who is being kicked out of his or her adopted country. Personally, many good friends have left and I miss them. Professionally, I'm convinced it will take years for the skill loss to be overcome.

 

[Joejr14]

You obviously don't read about anything outside your own shores, because that's EXACTLY what's happening in our country now. I'm all for immigration as long as it's economically controlled, it can bring great cultural and economic benefits, and is often the driving force behind an economic boom, which is what happened with the US (as I'm sure you know).

Oh is it? When was this? Are we talking about post WWII? I will not argue that the size of the working force plays a role in basic supply and demand, to state that it's the driving force behind economic booms is absurd. All one needs to do is look to the last big economic boom the US had and that pretty much shoots that one down. It's just not as simple as saying well supply increases, so output does as well. And while output does increase given an increase in supply, you have to recognize that prices decrease when the supply curve shifts. Of course that's just basic macro principles and it's much more in depth, but MANY things play a big role in economic booms. You can include employment levels, technology, price of labor, availability of resources, foreign confidence in American goods, imports/exports, inflation, etc. Then again, I could sit here and argue that the money supply plays an even bigger role....

English isn't the official language of the US, only of 28 states, but there's no official federal language, due to the nation being so ethnically diverse.

This is true. And it should be changed.

America is far from being the greatest country in the World, no nation has claims to that as there are so many different aspects that must be looked at and assessed. I understand you're being patriotic but that statement offends me and many others, I'm sure. There are aspects of America that are very good, there are also aspects that are not very good, just as it is with every country, but no nation can be 'the best', it's not a competition.

Bullhonkey. The US is by far the greatest country in the World. Sure, we have our opportunities, as does everyone. I'm not quite sure why that statement would 'offend' you. And dontcha know? Everything here is a competition!

Oh and by the way, many countries (that aren't totalitarian) have the right to free speech and the ability to practice their beliefs free of oppression, that doesn't make them unique or 'the best', it just means they're adhering to a set of logical human rights.

All the best

David

You make a great point. Why was it that so many people immigrated from the UK to the US back in the 1700's?

 

[jazzgeek]

Hm... how can I say this without going to the "bad side" with anyone.

With civility, of course.

The statements are kind of like your online personality (I don't know you in real life so I cannot say that is exactly your personality).

Wait, now you're claiming that I have a personality?

A little "tough" and "too bad I don't care what you think" etc. Nothing bad about it, just reminds me of you.

I presume you're referring to our little exchange from the "Angry White Man" thread. Consider this:

If I didn't care what you thought, I wouldn't even respond. :dancer:

Quite often, my care/concern for someone's thoughts has nothing to do with it. More often than not, I'll analyze the logic behind the argument that someone is trying to make. That's what I did in that particular thread, at both the arguments presented in the original article, and as a rebuttal to a point you were trying to make.

If you think that's "rude", you're taking it too personally, IMO. If you want to label them "attacks", so be it; but they were "attacks" to the argument and not to the person making it. 'Tis a pity that some people don't understand this, and thus will make it personal.

The only time I've stated "I don't care what you think" was, in essence, when I stated that I didn't care what they thought of me.

regards,
jazz

 

[diamondlil]

That's the other thread (thanks, Jazz), 'Angry whiney white man'. So this is another chest-beating eugenic manly fantasy thingy. :rofl:

 

[jazzgeek]

English isn't the official language of the US, only of 28 states, but there's no official federal language, due to the nation being so ethnically diverse.

This is true. And it should be changed.

You'll need to be more specific; are you desiring change in making English as the "official" language via Constitutional Amendment, or are you desiring change in the ethnic diversity of our nation?

Regardless of choice, good luck with that.

And dontcha know? Everything here is a competition!

Then why am I paying my electric bill to a de jure monopoly? Why hasn't there been an upstart league, like the AFL was for football in the 60s, to add some competition to the monopoly of Major League Baseball?

Besides, if everything was a pure laissez-faire competition, we'd let the invisible hand of the marketplace determine what Our National Language should be. No need to require that English become "official" by law, we'd just let competition determine that, wouldn't we?

regards,
jazz

 

[susang]

I live in the US, I don't think we're the greatest or the best, we are a democracy, which makes many statements following the OP scarey. I'm waiting for the white pointy hats or the ethnic cleansing, to be the way of the masses. Are we not all human I don't have black, brown or purple friends, I don't have Christian, Jewish or Muslim friends, I don't have male or female friends, I don't have gay or straight friends, I don't have old or young friends. I just have freinds any other specification about them is bigotry, plain and simple.

 

[jazzgeek]

I live in the US, I don't think we're the greatest or the best, we are a democracy....

Not to pick nits, but the United States is a Constitutional Republic.....(whose citizens believe in the principles of democracy).

More on it here.

regards,
jazz

 

[Snake Dave]

Oh is it? When was this? Are we talking about post WWII? I will not argue that the size of the working force plays a role in basic supply and demand, to state that it's the driving force behind economic booms is absurd. All one needs to do is look to the last big economic boom the US had and that pretty much shoots that one down. It's just not as simple as saying well supply increases, so output does as well. And while output does increase given an increase in supply, you have to recognize that prices decrease when the supply curve shifts. Of course that's just basic macro principles and it's much more in depth, but MANY things play a big role in economic booms. You can include employment levels, technology, price of labor, availability of resources, foreign confidence in American goods, imports/exports, inflation, etc. Then again, I could sit here and argue that the money supply plays an even bigger role....

This statement just confirms my original thoughts, congratulations. Of course I mean post - WWII, I mean NOW. When you actually start reading about global affairs, come back and talk with me again.

Bullhonkey. The US is by far the greatest country in the World. Sure, we have our opportunities, as does everyone. I'm not quite sure why that statement would 'offend' you. And dontcha know? Everything here is a competition!

Tell you what mate, do this following experiment then I'll be inclined to agree with you. Genetically produce 1000 (or as many as you can) human babies, grow them to the age of 16 and do so in international waters. Personally take them to every single country in the World and try to show them every aspect of that country, good and bad. You'll probably die in the process but of course you'll die knowing that America will have won

Then there will be a final vote to show which country the children thought were the best. Now I wonder when the children have been shown the fact that America has the highest crime rate amongst developed nations, the most people held in prisons (proportional to the population), the fact that capital punishment is still in use, the fact that it has the highest obesity rate in the World, the fact that racism is still at large (*cough* New Orleans *cough*) and the fact that there are morons like George W Bush running the country.

America isn't the greatest nation in the World, and neither is Britain. Nor is any country. I understand your competition statement, but to be pefectly honest, by you thinking you can adhere to that code of conduct, that plays a huge role in the image of America (and I'm not saying it's good or bad, up to your own interpretations there.)

You make a great point. Why was it that so many people immigrated from the UK to the US back in the 1700's?

Well actually, the first British people to arrive in America were convicts, this pre-dated the arrival of the Mayflower. The motivation behind the founding of colonies was piecemeal and variable. Practical considerations, such as commercial enterprise and over-population played a part. It made sense to start another colony of Britain, even if it wasn't official. Most of them came because they wanted to make a new religion in a land where only those who believed it would live, as they wanted a pure society reformed from the Church of England. Basically, they wanted exceptionalism to come to life because they were different from the crowd, seeking the 'true religion', they fled England and in America created a "nation of saints" or the "City upon a Hill," an intensely religious, thoroughly righteous community designed to be an example for all of Europe. This doesn't mean that they couldn't practice their own religion, they just felt disgusted by all of the others who they claimed were 'seethed in debauchery'.

 

[jazzgeek]

So true. America love or leave it and speak the language :flames:

Why do "PEOPLE LIKE ME" make you fearfull for this great country :shrugs:

Have I ever mentioned that I'm a fan of irony?

regards,
jazz