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snake id (copper head?)

crotalis40741 said:
This is my vote (Nerodia fasciata) southern water snake
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You might be right. I really don't know what baby cottonmouths look like. I was going on head shape alone. But watersnakes are known for head flattening and they have tall heads that are very sharp sided (in other words not as rounded as a rat or corn) and they can be very convincing.

I still think the hopper would be a good test.A rat snake would constrict or grab and attempt a swallow ( no way it's a rat) and a watersnake would probably just bite it (like a cottonmouth) but the outcome would be different.
 
Yeah found two counties over from me, they guy that has it had that T.V. show Snake Man of the Appalachia. Didn't really like the show though lol Sorry we hijacked your thread.
 
Oscarsdad said:
You might be right. I really don't know what baby cottonmouths look like. I was going on head shape alone. But watersnakes are known for head flattening and they have tall heads that are very sharp sided (in other words not as rounded as a rat or corn) and they can be very convincing.

I still think the hopper would be a good test.A rat snake would constrict or grab and attempt a swallow ( no way it's a rat) and a watersnake would probably just bite it (like a cottonmouth) but the outcome would be different.
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The few times I have seen water snakes eat here, the prey was alive and the snake was trying to swallow it. But it was a fish trying to be eaten.
 
one time a diamondbacked water snake fished a fairly large baby catfish out of my pond & swallowed it whole & alive--I didn't even know we had catfish lol.....oops yeah-sorry for the hijack lol
 
Yes, the banding looks like a nerodia/Natrix, (and that was my first thought before reading your post) but the OP said it has vertically slit pupils. If that is true it is NOT A HARMLESS SNAKE!!! Tell him to stop handling now! I would love to see a better photo, too, but based on the information given it's either a cottonmouth or a copperhead.
 
Chip said:
Yes, the banding looks like a nerodia/Natrix, (and that was my first thought before reading your post) but the OP said it has vertically slit pupils. If that is true it is NOT A HARMLESS SNAKE!!! Tell him to stop handling now! I would love to see a better photo, too, but based on the information given it's either a cottonmouth or a copperhead.
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Unless of course it was an import that got away and he found it... Because you know as well as I do, many exotic snakes may very well be harmless and have slitted pupils... Shoot, there are a few "harmless" (mild venom, not considered harmful to humans) species in NM that have slitted pupils.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb and say odds are overwhelmingly high that he's found a native species.
 
Assuming it is a native Alabama species, that would rule out night snakes that have vertical pupils and are relatively (to humans) harmless. All other U.S. snakes (and those in Alabama) with vertical pupils are pit vipers: rattlers, copperheads and cottonmouths.

Based on the last third of the body, however, the distinctive blotches look more like what you would see on water snakes (Nerodia sp.) or ratsnakes (Pantherophis sp.) than a copperhead or cottonmouth (Agkistrodon). I suspect it is a water snake or rat snake but the bad picture and blurred head not help identification.

Nevertheless, I would not free handle a snake that I found and could not properly ID. I would suggest the same for the person who caught this one.
 
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MotleyMedusa7 said:
one time a diamondbacked water snake fished a fairly large baby catfish out of my pond & swallowed it whole & alive--I didn't even know we had catfish lol.....oops yeah-sorry for the hijack lol
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That's what I meant- a watersnake wouldn't constrict it and a venomous snake wouldn't grab it live and attempt a swallow. But both might just bite it and withdraw. The reason I saidhopper was I was thinking that all the movement would draw a reaction strike and the size would be big enough to defray an easy meal.Also mice are not either Cottonmouths nor watersnakes first meal of choice. I don't see a hijack here but that's just me.

I mess with snakes all the time that I don't know what they are. I learned how to identify the handful of venomous snakes in my area and I don't mess with them. I do treat every snake as a venomous snake when handling them until I get a positive ID. To do otherwise is just stupid IMHO.

If it does have vertical pupils- that pretty much trumps any other doubts. .....
 
El Jefe said:
Assuming it is a native Alabama species, that would rule out night snakes that have vertical pupils and are relatively (to humans) harmless. All other U.S. snakes (and those in Alabama) with vertical pupils are pit vipers: rattlers, copperheads and cottonmouths.

Based on the last third of the body, however, the distinctive blotches look more like what you would see on water snakes (Nerodia sp.) or ratsnakes (Pantherophis sp.) than a copperhead or cottonmouth (Agkistrodon). I suspect it is a water snake or rat snake but the bad picture and blurred head not help identification.

Nevertheless, I would not free handle a snake that I found and could not properly ID. I would suggest the same for the person who caught this one.
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Lyre snakes also have slitted pupils. Are they considered a pitviper? or are they a type of night snake? I don't think that they are native to Alabama...

Yes Chip, I believe they found a native as well. I was just playing at Devil's Advocate...

It is always better to air on the side of caution. So think of it as venomous until proven otherwise.
 
cornbreadandmilk said:
he has been holding it all day and wont listen to me not sure what do to
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Have him put the snake in a secure container. Then take him & the snake to the nearest hospital. If it should happen to bite him ( because he's not likely to leave it in the container...) , you'll be at or near a place where he can get medical attention.... And-in most cases.... A proper ID of the snake in question.

That is all.....

Edit: most likely a water snake.... Seeing that your friend isn't reeling in pain from being bitten. Copperheads, while its not likely to kill you, will leave you with a very nice souvenir.
 
In my experience with both, I'd say water snakes are bitier on average than copperheads. Though I've never tried to handle a copperhead more than I had to, when collecting and moving them, some copperheads are quite chill. I don't seem to run across those watersnakes, though I've seen photos of wild ones being barehanded here.
 
When I was stationed in Florida I caught what we called Brown Water snakes, and most of them were docile, as was the banded water snake we caught.... From what I can remember as a child, the copperheads that I would catch (being extremely unsafe, it's a wonder I am as healthy as I am today) were pretty docile as well... Though, knowing what I do now, I would not free handle any venomous anymore...
 
rich333 said:
Have him put the snake in a secure container. Then take him & the snake to the nearest hospital. If it should happen to bite him ( because he's not likely to leave it in the container...) , you'll be at or near a place where he can get medical attention.... And-in most cases.... A proper ID of the snake in question.

That is all.....

Edit: most likely a water snake.... Seeing that your friend isn't reeling in pain from being bitten. Copperheads, while its not likely to kill you, will leave you with a very nice souvenir.
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Not necessarily- out of the 7,000 or so venomous snake bites in the U.S. last year, one of the handful of fatalities that occurred was a copperhead bite and the victim died on the way to the hospital, from anaphylactic shock.
 
Oscarsdad said:
Not necessarily- out of the 7,000 or so venomous snake bites in the U.S. last year, one of the handful of fatalities that occurred was a copperhead bite and the victim died on the way to the hospital, from anaphylactic shock.
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Hence the "while not likely".
 
I'd agree that one out of all the thousands of bites each year falls under "not likely" as well. ;)

My herp buddy who passed away last year was an ER nurse and just our little Asheville Regional/Mission Hospital sees bites each year. The amount of tissue damage can be still be horrendous (and scarring permanent). It is ill-advised to handle any snake you aren't sure what is. I really hope we get some better photos of this one.
 
Chip said:
I'd agree that one out of all the thousands of bites each year falls under "not likely" as well. ;)

My herp buddy who passed away last year was an ER nurse and just our little Asheville Regional/Mission Hospital sees bites each year. The amount of tissue damage can be still be horrendous (and scarring permanent). It is ill-advised to handle any snake you aren't sure what is. I really hope we get some better photos of this one.
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i cant seem to squeeze the pics from him.i would really like to know ar this point if not for the slit eyes i would agree on banded water snake
 
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