More genetic info ?s, okeetees and other.

First, has any scientist or other mapped all or part of cornsnake DNA? If not, someone should work on it. I know my science teacher would like to. And if so, then where can I learn about it

Second, what is the okeetee trait. I know the looks it gives snakes, but it seems almost to complex to be a simple one gene, two alleles type trait. I read that it is just a color variation of normals, but what will happen if it's bred to a normal, or any other corn morph? What is it that creates okeetee snakes rather than normals?

I'm asking because I plan to breed my reverse okeetee to my normal het anery A and amel (snow), and het stripe. Once I know about okeetee I can figure out the genetics and what I'll get out of the pair.

Thanks

tbtusk said:

Second, what is the okeetee trait. I know the looks it gives snakes, but it seems almost to complex to be a simple one gene, two alleles type trait. I read that it is just a color variation of normals, but what will happen if it's bred to a normal, or any other corn morph? What is it that creates okeetee snakes rather than normals?

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Okeetees are not the result of a specific gene, but the selective breeding of snakes with broader than normal black markings. When bred back to normal, you may see more black than average, but that isn't guaranteed.

As far as I know, no one is working on mapping cornsnake DNA at this time.

Okeetee corns are either a locality morph, a selectively bred variety of normal and/or both, depending upon who you talk to. There is no single gene that creates the morph.

Disregarding locality (and I mean no insult to those of that belief), you are more concerned with the look of the variety since you have a reverse Okeetee, which is another selectively bred variety, but of amels. Breeding ANY selectively bred variety (Okeetee, reverse Okeetee, Miami phase, sunglow, etc) to a morph or a non-selectively bred variety will reduce the chance of producing offspring of that particular variety. The only "mixing" of selectively bred varieties that will give you the best chance of reproducing the look after the mix is an Okeetee X reverse Okeetee pairing (as both morphs have large borders and richly colored ground color).

To better describe it...the different breeds of dogs were created the same way...through selective breeding. If you were to breed a Doberman to a Doberman, you will get Doberman puppies. However, if you were to breed a Doberman to a Beagle, the puppies will neither be Dobermans nor Beagles. You may get a couple of puppies that look more like Dobermans, and if you kept them, bred them to each other or to a Doberman, you can keep the puppies from that litter that look even more like a Doberman, and keep repeating this until you get puppies that again look like "pure-bred" Dobermans. Over another hundred years or so, you would probably not be able to tell the difference between your line bred Dobermans and the original pure Dobermans...until you get that one throw-back pup that looks sort of like a Beagle, but then again, that even happens today, which is why selectively bred corn varieties can occasionally produce offspring that just don't qualify as best representing that variety.

that was an easy and excellent way to put it susan..........thanks.

Thanks, that helps a lot Susan. I suspected it wasn't genes but this helps. Thanks again!

okay.. to bring this thread back into play... what do you get if you breed a ghost (unkonwn hets) with an okeetee (at the moment unkown hets, Im trying to purchase one).

Another question.. ghosts are hypo anery A, are okeetees hypo or...? I hope that question makes sense, it does in my head, but I know what Im thinking (most times :grin01: ).

ladydragon said:

okay.. to bring this thread back into play... what do you get if you breed a ghost (unkonwn hets) with an okeetee (at the moment unkown hets, Im trying to purchase one).

Another question.. ghosts are hypo anery A, are okeetees hypo or...? I hope that question makes sense, it does in my head, but I know what Im thinking (most times :grin01: ).

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There is such a thing as a hypo-Okeetee, but a regular Okeetee is not hypo. It is a normal, meaning that it is not expressing any of the known mutant genes. Crossing a ghost with no hets to an Okeetee with no hets will result in normals het for hypo and anery. Depending on the ghost, the normals will probably not have the Okeetee look (i.e. rich orange color and thick black saddle borders), or they will not have the look to the extent that the Okeetee parent does.

it would be a muted okeetee or a light normal? Im sure if I knew what the parents were/are/could be het for, it would be easier to predict some kind of outcome...

this is the male ghost




and the female is a regular okeetee from love lines, but produced by someone else. She is the one Im trying to purchase so I can't show a pic of her.

ladydragon said:

it would be a muted okeetee or a light normal? Im sure if I knew what the parents were/are/could be het for, it would be easier to predict some kind of outcome...

and the female is a regular okeetee from love lines, but produced by someone else. She is the one Im trying to purchase so I can't show a pic of her.

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Well, here's the problem. Ghosts are expressing anery and hypoA. HypoA reduces saddle borders. So it would be difficult to predict the "Okeetee-ness" of the offspring, since you have no idea how thick the ghost's saddle borders would have been had it not been HypoA. I would never use a hypoA-anything as founding stock to produce thick-bordered, "Okeetee-ish" normals. :shrugs:

hhmm... now I have to rethink what I want to do. what would be good to breed to my ghost then?

ladydragon said:

hhmm... now I have to rethink what I want to do. what would be good to breed to my ghost then?

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That really depends on what you want to produce.

dont know... hence why Im asking the questions I am and listening to answers from the experts. Plus I am "working" with what I have right now that is breedable and its just my male ghost at the moment. So Im open for suggestions..

thanx Dean

JMHO if you are working of off the hypo and anery genes of the ghost, something carrying those genes will give you more of a variety of babies. I'd look for an "X" corn snake het ghost, which when bred to your ghost would produce a mix of normals het "X" possibly het. ghost, hypos het "X" pos. het. anery, anery A's het. "X" pos. het. hypo and ghosts het. "X"

hm.. okay.. I'll look into that too.. see what I can find. thanx for the info. I'll keep everyone posted as to what I come across.

If you have a ghost(aneryA + hypo) and breed it to a snow(aneryA + amel), you will get 100% anery het amel het hypo. Breeding these babies back to each other will give you a mix of anerys, ghosts, "hybinos"(amel + hypo) and snows...a nice, wide variety of offspring...

was thinking of perhaps getting a snow, but Im glad you filled me in on what the possible outcomes could be. now I just need a breedable age female snow.

one more question.. sorry to be a pain in the butt. I recently purchased an 06 classic female, hets unknown if any. What possible outcomes would result from breeding her with my ghost?

100% Normal het for aneryA and hypoA. Unknown hets are hard to deal with. If your normal is het for anything, than the offspring will be possible het for those as well...