2 of the new guys - But what are they?

[Mowgli]

My guess on this 225 gram guy would be motley, or is hypo an option?

Dark picture, but you get the idea:

Some of his pattern, stil a little bad pic:

Some of the belly, with no checkers:

Blurry, but you get the colors:

Checkers under the throat, but bronzed out down the body:

Never seen motleys or hypos IRL before, wich is why i ask your opinions.

This 125 gram guy is an okeetee (Or lookeetee?) i think. What do you think?

Used flash on this one due to lack of proper light:

He is darker and more redish IRL:

Dont mind the poop :

Thanks for looking Hope to get their genetics revealed!

 

[Mowgli]

We need an "Edit" button!!!
The thing about he being more redish IRL should be on the last picture.

 

[Slippery Ernie]

Very nice. How old is the okeetee?

 

[Mowgli]

I realy dont know

 

[cka]

1) Hypo, maybe a het motley :shrugs:, a lot of snakes have that "I really wanna be a
motley" look, but almost all motleys will have no checkers on their belly

2) how about "Okeetee Phase" for this one. It has everything that makes one i.e.
nice solid orange ground color w/ black bordered red saddles

Both real nice lookers, Mikkel

 

[Mowgli]

Okeetee, Lookeetee, Okeetee Phase What makes the difference?

 

[cka]

What makes an Okeetee is a subject that gets beaten to death every year, just do a search thru the forum and you'll see :crazy02:

"Okeetee" corns were originally described in a book called "The Keeper and the Kept" by Karl Caulfield. It was a description of one type of wild corn found on the Okeetee Hunt Club Plantation in South Carolina.

The debate is usually between "purists", who believe if an animal can not be proven to come from this one area of the US it can not be called an Okeetee, no matter how it looks, vs "everybody else" (lol) who say that if an animal meets the definition of what Karl Caulfield described as an "Okeetee" (which btw had no mention of black bordered saddles) it is an Okeetee.

A concession to this long drawn out argument would be then it's either a "Locality Okeetee" or an "Okeetee phase" corn snake. Since you (most likely) have no way of proving your animals locality, but it looks like a nice example of one, I'd (and of course, jmho here) would call yours an Okeetee phase

A "looketee" is a normal corn that just "kind of" looks like an Okeetee.

 

[gardenmum]

The first one is not a motley. A motley has an all white belly with no checks. Also, a motley lacks side pattern. Yours has both side pattern and belly checks, even though the checks are a little reduced. So, I would say no to the motley. Whether it is a hypo or not would be something you would have to prove out in breeding trials. It doesn't look like hypos I have seen but that does not mean it may not be. Breeding trials will answer that question for you.

The second one, some would say it was an okeetee type but if that were in my collection I would call it a really nice looking normal. My preference, and this is only my preference, for me to call a snake an okeetee type is for them to have thick black borders including on the side pattern. BUT other people have various opinions on that it is up to you how you would like to call it in my opinion.

Nice looking couple of snakes you got there.

 

[cka]

Whether it is a hypo or not would be something you would have to prove out in breeding trials. It doesn't look like hypos I have seen but that does not mean it may not be. Breeding trials will answer that question for you.

Dianne makes an excellent point. You wont know anything unless you breed it out, preferably to another known hypo snake. With the Okeetee's, everyone has a "minds eye" view of what they think is an Okeetee. I think you could safely call it one, only because it fits my own specifications of one. Here in the States we have it easier than most; there are a couple known, established lines of either locality Okeetee's or Okeetee phase corns available.

Either way they are a nice pair of snakes; test breed the first, call the second a Classic Normal, (or Okeetee lol) and first and foremost, enjoy keeping them

ps I just noticed the throat pic on the first, must have overlooked it. Thiose checks, as black as they are, make me think that Dianne had it right; it is a normal corn...but again, you wont know for sure unless you breed it out :*)