4 corns, you guess the morphs ;)

[red_dragon]

tell me

 

[Amanda E]

I say they are normals, but that they look like they may be Het Bloodred, at least three of them do. The other one looks normal, maybe a hypo, but I doubt it.

 

[red_dragon]

hint.. ...

 

[Amanda E]

Wow! So they are bloodreds. They don't have the typical head pattern or as clean of a dorsal pattern as I am used to that's why I guessed Het Bloodred.

 

[gardenmum]

Well, Amanda, you're not alone, my guess was like yours only I would have guessed two were normal het bloodred and the other two were normal. Interesting.

 

[Russ Bates]

not full bloods

but outcrossed bloods. I've gotten similar results in my collection however I typically get more checkering on the belly.

 

[red_dragon]

but outcrossed bloods. I've gotten similar results in my collection however I typically get more checkering on the belly.

I've bought them as bloodred poss. het pewter !

Hmmm sure they aren't full ones?

 

[Russ Bates]

well

I wont' go out on a limb and say they're not bloods but they are not what I've typically seen labled as bloods. Here are some bloods.
Russ

 

[drizzt_19]

I've bought them as bloodred poss. het pewter !

Hmmm sure they aren't full ones?

They appear to be normals to me...They don't quite meet the grade for bloodreds in my eyes...They appear to have more color on the ventral then I have seen on some bloodreds...Most bloodreds have plain white bellies...Most of my het bloodreds have the red checkering...I will take a pic tonight and show you...

 

[So Pirate55]

is it me or do they have too much side pattern to be bloods? maybe not...i dunno i just figured it'd be more uniform, especially the one far left in the bellyshot picture.

 

[Amanda E]

I've bought them as bloodred poss. het pewter !

Hmmm sure they aren't full ones?

I think Russ meant that they are outcrossed as in maybe they are from parents that were only het bloodred, so theses guys may in fact be bloodreds, but so removed from the original bloodred that was used to make these that they don't look like the typical bloodred. Did that make sense?

But, maybe I misunderstood him and he didn't mean that at all.

 

[Russ Bates]

actually what I mean was that the snakes in the pictures in the first post look like they are a result of breeding a bloodred to another corn snake...probably a normal or maybe even a het for pewter corn but then that would make them a possible het out-crossed blood at best.

I bred a lavender to a blood this year and I'll post pics tonight so you can see what I'm talking about.

Russ

 

[Serpwidgets]

I think Russ meant that they are outcrossed as in maybe they are from parents that were only het bloodred, so theses guys may in fact be bloodreds, but so removed from the original bloodred that was used to make these that they don't look like the typical bloodred.

It's frustrating isn't it? It's like saying "they look kinda like amels but--even though they have pink eyes and no black on them and we know we'll get more of the same when we breed to other amels--they aren't really amels because all amels are supposed to look like candycanes. So they must be outcrossed but not 'full' amels."

But all amels are amels, it's just that not all amels are candycanes. It doesn't mean everything else is an "outcrossed candycane."

I've bought them as bloodred poss. het pewter !

Hmmm sure they aren't full ones?

Depends on what you mean by "full." When bred to other "bloodred" or "diffused" corns, they will throw offspring with the same type of pattern as themselves.

The above are what I call "diffused" corns. They are homozygous for the "diffusion" pattern trait just like amels are homozygous for the amelanistic color trait. The ones that are selectively bred for that red look are the ones I call "bloodred" corns.

 

[Russ Bates]

well

"they look kinda like amels but--even though they have pink eyes and no black on them and we know we'll get more of the same when we breed to other amels--they aren't really amels because all amels are supposed to look like candycanes. So they must be outcrossed but not 'full' amels."


I hear what you're saying and unless someone can show proof positive the snakes lineage I'm inclined to stick with the outcross theory. I agree with you on trait amel. To me any corn that has red eyes and no black is some form of amel...... and I'm sure someone will throw up a type that will bust holes in my thoughts. Even the best hypos have some minute black pigment some where on them or the eyes are a lighter color but not red/pink.

But if I understand you the issue is in the quality of the blood to begin with that would result in corns that are labled bloods and show some of the trait but are not typical of what most expect from the term "bloodred".

Glad we got that straight...............now you want to talk about Ultramels
Russ
P.S. Love the corn guide you put together, very nice.

 

[Russ Bates]

pics of some outcrossed

here are some corns that are the result of breeding a lavender to a bloodred. The pics don't show what you can see in person but they show a lot of BR influence.

Russ

 

[stephen]

amels

are you sure those arent amels ? they look like it to me! :shrugs: :grin01:

 

[Jynx]

Quote Serp - "The above are what I call "diffused" corns. They are homozygous for the "diffusion" pattern trait just like amels are homozygous for the amelanistic color trait. The ones that are selectively bred for that red look are the ones I call "bloodred" corns."

I agree with this 100%. Unless they are selectively bred for that stop sign red that we are familiar with, I don't call them bloodreds. The diffuse gene is responsible for the pattern, regardless of the color, and thats what I refer to it as. Unfortunately some people don't understand "diffuse" because all they hear is "bloodred."

I would agree that they do carry the diffuse gene, I just don't think they are what we all expect to see when someone says "bloodred."

 

[Serpwidgets]

Russ, yessir, the trait is codominant so many hets will show signs. I've got some hets that look like that too.

But if I understand you the issue is in the quality of the blood to begin with that would result in corns that are labled bloods and show some of the trait but are not typical of what most expect from the term "bloodred".

The thing that concerns me is the idea everyone has that the solid red ones are always "better." They are nice, but they aren't the only thing that can be good. I think other attractive morphs can be created with the trait. That is, if they are selected in different directions...

I would love to see some bred toward having thick black borders and bright orange ground color (like Okeetees) and with a pattern that is super strong on the back and then fades away into orange as you go down the sides toward the belly. My "Okeetee Phase" avatar is het for the pattern, so just imagine the faded out side pattern on a snake with those colors, wouldn't it be a beautiful morph?

A "Miami phase" variant like that would be pretty, too. I wonder how hard it would be to get all the yellow/red/orange out of the ground color. :shrugs:

People are also crossing Keys corns with them. Those should be interesting, too.

 

[red_dragon]

right..

So a conclusion is that these ''bloodreds'' aren't bloodreds, but outcrossed ones?

Gee, ive bought them as 2 bloodreds and 2 outcrossed bloodreds..

Please tell me, has somebody sold me outcrossed normals as bloodreds :O

 

[Russ Bates]

no conclusion

I don't believe there is a conclusion, just a bunch of opinions. In my opinion, they don't appear/look to be what I would call a bloodred.

Russ