4 pregnant mice question, also micefood question

[PatrickBateman]

This is my first mouse colony for breeding purposes, so i have a few questions about my setup. First of all, I am using a 10 gallon tank with 1.4 mice in it. There is 1 black male named Kobe and 1 black + 3 white unnamed female mice. I'd say I have had them about 3 or so weeks, and I am pretty sure all 4 of them are quite pregnant. Their stomachs puff way out to the sides.

My main concern is what I am supposed to do before/after the babies are born.

Is it perfectly fine to keep the whole 1.4 colony together? I know all 4 of the females are pregnant, will this be a problem? Am I supposed to move the male away from the females? I have heard of babies being eaten on occasion, would this happen on a large scale and all 4 mothers would eat all 4 litters?

If i take pinkies away from the mother(s), will they care? How much of a litter can I remove from the mother?


Also I am sure there are tons of experienced mice breeders in this place, so what exactly can I expect the babies colors to be If I am breeding a black male with black and white females? Will I get only solid white and solid black mice, or some sort of other thing?

My last question is about mouse food. How much does food does a mouse need to be comfortable? I have heard that the main reason behind a female mouse eating her litter is because of lack of available food. Right now I have been feeding them cat food(for protein), one of those mixed seeds/nuts/whatever bags, and some plain rice cakes that my friend gave me after they went stale. Occasionally I will give them treats of raw almonds or peanuts. Usually I just fill up a small dish with the cat food or mixed seeds every day. Do I need to give them more now that they are pregnant?

I would appreciate any advice or replies to these things. Thanks

 

[PatrickBateman]

Well this doesn't look very good. One of the mice gave birth to half a dozen pinkies and a few are already dead. I saw one of the other mice running around with one in its mouth, so i guess they are going to kill all the babies. Still not sure what to do here.

 

[ButtersCorns4life]

I have never had mice, I'm really thinking on getting some, but I think you should separate the females into tupperware for awhile. OR at least get the numbers in the cage down... I'm sorry if this doesn't work, best luck to you.

 

[Jrgh17]

Well this doesn't look very good. One of the mice gave birth to half a dozen pinkies and a few are already dead. I saw one of the other mice running around with one in its mouth, so i guess they are going to kill all the babies. Still not sure what to do here.

Okay, is this the first time these females have been bred? Many are somewhat dumb the first time around, and have smaller litters and/or kill the babies. Think of it as a practice birthing.

Sometimes other females will try to steal babies. This may be the "running around with one in its mouth" that you saw. I only do rats, but I know my females have a tendency to randomly switch babies. Also, sometimes the male will move a couple of the babies. He probably thinks he knows best where the nest belongs. Needless to say, trying to tell a woman what to do is pretty futile. :smash:

Unless you hear from someone who has specific experience with mice, I would just wait it out. Make sure they always have food and especially fresh water available (get a second water bottle if you need it), and nature should sort itself out.

 

[tyflier]

First litters are sometimes killed because the colony simply doesn't know what to do. It isn't exactly common, but it happens.

But just to be sure, double-check that they are getting enough food and water. Often, a colony will kill the offspring if the resources provided are not deemed ample enough to support the colony. Extra seed or blocks or whatever you feed them doesn't hurt. Also...if you are using Kay-Tee blocks...get rid of them. They do not provide enough nutrition or something, because I lost every baby in 5 colonies at one time when I was trying them out as something different.

As regards your original post:

Females are most fertile within a few days of giving birth. If your goal is high production numbers, simply keep your colonies together. This will lower your female life expectancy, but will provide maximum output. If your goal is colony longevity, it doesn't hurt to remove the males while the females are suckling. Once the babies are big hoppers or weanling size you can re-introduce the male to the colony. If you put the male back in too soon, he may kill the babies, thinking that they are not his. If he is at all in doubt, he will kill them. Once they are weanling size, the chances of this happening are greatly reduced, though not eliminated.

Mothers do not like it when you take their babies, but they are powerless to stop you, aside from an occasional bite and an angry look. However, they can develope tumours in the mammary glands if they are not allowed to release a high quantity of their milk. I recommend only removing part of a litter from each mother to avoid this from developing. It has a name...masteticis, or something. I can't remember off the top of my head...sorry, it's late. But it happens if the babies are removed and the mothers are left lactating without any oulet for the milk.

You can expect the babies to be a mix of white, black, and piebald if your white females are albinos. At least...that's what I THINK I remember from when I was breeding non-albino mice, but I could be wrong. I only use albino lab mice now, because they tend to produce higher numbers per litter.

Food...I avoid cat and dog food, because the fat is too high. I feed a mix of quality small hook bird seed, dried fruit, nuts, pumpkin seed, cheerios, etc. I also supplement with millet sprays, wood block and cholla chew toys, and yogurt-dipped rodent treats. I try to keep a constant supply of food, and simply let them forage as they feel it's necessary.

 

[PatrickBateman]

thanks tyflier, your reply was exactly what i was looking for. I am going to keep everything as it is, and make sure not to disturb them very much in the next few days. Hopefully by then I think all of them will have given birth and settled into maternity mode.

What kind of mouse hideaway do you use? I was thinking of getting one of those little igloo things. Right now I am using half a plastic chinese food container and a piece of cardboard box flipped upside down.

Also, how does one clean the cage with lots of pinkies in it? am I supposed to take everything out, or will that terrorize them too much and they will end up killing the pinkies?

 

[tyflier]

I use half of a plastic coffee can as a hide. I won't go spend $6 on a piece of plastic when I alread have several laying around as a by-product of my caffiene addiction.

You can remove all of the babies and adults for cleaning and put them in a seperate container. I make sure to scoop up some of the existing litter with the babies, so the scent of the mothers is still with them. When I return them to their newly cleaned cage, I bring along the same small bit of old litter...just to maintain scent on the babies. I also put the babies into the holding bin first, and put them back into the breeding bin first. I don't know if it really matters, it's just the way I have always done it. It seems that the females will start looking for their offspring when I take the whole group out, so when I put the mothers in the holding biin(or back in the breeding bin), they are just relieved to see their babies, instead of wondering if the babies are theirs.

For the record, I have one colony at home(1.8) and 8 colonies at the shop(1.4 each), and I do it the same way with all of them, and very rarely have any issues...