Interested
New member
from the research I have done, these are the same thing with different names. Is that correct?
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Amel/albino/reverse Okeetee?
- Thread starter Interested
- Start date
Darin Chappell
Very Senior Hillbilly
Yes, No .... Uh, maybe!
Amel -- Short for amelanistic. This is an albino that is lacking the melanin of a normally colored snake, leaving the reds, yellows, and whites to shine through
Albino -- An animal missing a normally expressed pigment. Although people are usually referring the amels when they use this term, it is actually overly broad and incorrectly applied. Anerythristics (those lacking the red coloration) are also "albinos" in the sense that they are missing normal pigmentation. So also are snows, butters, blizzards, and opals, but each of these is quite different from a regular Amel.
Reverse Okeetee -- Not an okeetee in the locality sense (so I don't particularly like the apellation, but that is another story!), but rather an Amel that has been selectively bred to exhibit okeetee phase type markings, ie: deep red saddles surrounded by thicker than average bands of white on an orange background. Other selectively bred amels that usually do not differ at all on a recessive genetic level are: sunglows, florescent orange, and candy cane.
So, yes, the terms "amel," "albino," and "reverse okeetee" are often used to describe the same animal, but they are different enough to be used in very different ways in other contexts.
Hope that helps a bit --
Amel -- Short for amelanistic. This is an albino that is lacking the melanin of a normally colored snake, leaving the reds, yellows, and whites to shine through
Albino -- An animal missing a normally expressed pigment. Although people are usually referring the amels when they use this term, it is actually overly broad and incorrectly applied. Anerythristics (those lacking the red coloration) are also "albinos" in the sense that they are missing normal pigmentation. So also are snows, butters, blizzards, and opals, but each of these is quite different from a regular Amel.
Reverse Okeetee -- Not an okeetee in the locality sense (so I don't particularly like the apellation, but that is another story!), but rather an Amel that has been selectively bred to exhibit okeetee phase type markings, ie: deep red saddles surrounded by thicker than average bands of white on an orange background. Other selectively bred amels that usually do not differ at all on a recessive genetic level are: sunglows, florescent orange, and candy cane.
So, yes, the terms "amel," "albino," and "reverse okeetee" are often used to describe the same animal, but they are different enough to be used in very different ways in other contexts.
Hope that helps a bit --
Interested
New member
yes, thanks! I was wondering because one snake I was looking into was called reverse Okeetee, while the other was called an albino Okeetee, yet they looked the same. Anyways, I have ended up going with the "albino" Okeetee
Lee Slikkers
New member
Lee Slikkers
New member
Interested
New member
Beautiful!:bowdown:
tyretosmom
New member
Lee
the first one looks like a sunglow.
the first one looks like a sunglow.
Darin Chappell
Very Senior Hillbilly
Unless I'm mistaken, it's an amel bloodred. If it's her male, I may be wanting to send you a female for a breeding, Lee! Very nice indeed!
Lee Slikkers
New member
Sorry Darin but he is indeed a Sunglow (which I guess isn't a true Amel but a hypo amel correct?) and she is obviously Amel but also het Anery...they throw Snows too
They are my 2 of my newest arrivals today from CKA (Chris) and I am tickled to death with em both...
It was "Break in the Weather Day" here in Holland and I received 12 Corns in a period of 45 minutes between UPS and FedEx...LOL, kinda crazy.
Lee
They are my 2 of my newest arrivals today from CKA (Chris) and I am tickled to death with em both...
It was "Break in the Weather Day" here in Holland and I received 12 Corns in a period of 45 minutes between UPS and FedEx...LOL, kinda crazy.
Lee
Darin Chappell
Very Senior Hillbilly
Lee,
Well, she is a very red sunglow, or at least she appears to be so on my screen! LOL Very pretty snake you have there.
Actually, most sunglows are not amel and hypo combined, but are simply linebred for minimal white on them. Unless the breeder from which you got her specifically said otherwise, I would presume that she is indeed the latter.
Well, she is a very red sunglow, or at least she appears to be so on my screen! LOL Very pretty snake you have there.
Actually, most sunglows are not amel and hypo combined, but are simply linebred for minimal white on them. Unless the breeder from which you got her specifically said otherwise, I would presume that she is indeed the latter.
Lee Slikkers
New member
Ok, that ws my original understanding of the morph as well Darin but after I received them I did some searching and that "hypo/amel" definition was the one given on Serp's site so my appologies...
Serp's Sunglow definition
But all definitions aside I will say I agree and that he has some stunning colors on him. He's as mellow as a peach too
Darin, while I have you here I noticed in some of the old breeding forum threads that you use Perilite over the Vermiculite...have you been fairly happy with the results? Sorry, I know, out of topic question...I could start another thread but it was mostly directed to Darin and I didn't see many others mentioning it in my searches.
Regards,
Lee
Serp's Sunglow definition
But all definitions aside I will say I agree and that he has some stunning colors on him. He's as mellow as a peach too
Darin, while I have you here I noticed in some of the old breeding forum threads that you use Perilite over the Vermiculite...have you been fairly happy with the results? Sorry, I know, out of topic question...I could start another thread but it was mostly directed to Darin and I didn't see many others mentioning it in my searches.
Regards,
Lee
Interested
New member
I am wondering:
if amel is completely lacking black pigment(or melanin), then wouldn't it be redundant to say its hypo melanistic AND Amel? Maybe I am missing something?
if amel is completely lacking black pigment(or melanin), then wouldn't it be redundant to say its hypo melanistic AND Amel? Maybe I am missing something?
So Pirate55
New member
No, amel's are completely lacking the black pigment, where as Hypo's still have it but it has been lessened through selective breeding to the point where it is barely traceable.
Darin Chappell
Very Senior Hillbilly
Lee,
There is no reason for you to apologize to me, or anyone else about anything. I believe, and Serp will have to correct me, if this is wrong, but I believe that Serp wrote that definition some time ago, when there were more people talking about sunglows being an amel/hypo combo. There may be some of those double homozygous animals out there, but I think they are the minority by far. I have heard people speak of them before, but I have never seen one, nor do I know first hand of any breeders who produced them that way.
I was simply trying to suggest that, given the law of large numbers, unless the animal was specifically represented to you as double homozygous, it is just more likely that it is not. But you never know ...
As to whether hypo and amel could be in the same animal, yes they can. What are the effects? Well, that's the tough part. Some have suggested in the past that hypo was a reduction in balck, but also in the size/width of the black markings. So, if you added the hypo to the amel, you would then get amels with reduced border markings, meaning less white, meaning more towards the sunglow ideal. However, I think this is not as accurate an assessment as it was once thought by some (JMO). Don Soderberg has hypo snows, though, and they have that coral look to them, enhancing the pink hues throughout; so that appears to be a noticeable effect of hypo on an amel animal.
As to the Perlite: Yes, I like it very much. It is less messy, in my opinion, and holds the water very well. Maybe too well, though, if you have a humidity accident! I lost five clutches of eggs this past year, because I messed up on my humidity levels. Thankfully I saved my motley/bloodred dh and th babies! But, that was the fault of the operator, not the Perlite.
There is no reason for you to apologize to me, or anyone else about anything. I believe, and Serp will have to correct me, if this is wrong, but I believe that Serp wrote that definition some time ago, when there were more people talking about sunglows being an amel/hypo combo. There may be some of those double homozygous animals out there, but I think they are the minority by far. I have heard people speak of them before, but I have never seen one, nor do I know first hand of any breeders who produced them that way.
I was simply trying to suggest that, given the law of large numbers, unless the animal was specifically represented to you as double homozygous, it is just more likely that it is not. But you never know ...
As to whether hypo and amel could be in the same animal, yes they can. What are the effects? Well, that's the tough part. Some have suggested in the past that hypo was a reduction in balck, but also in the size/width of the black markings. So, if you added the hypo to the amel, you would then get amels with reduced border markings, meaning less white, meaning more towards the sunglow ideal. However, I think this is not as accurate an assessment as it was once thought by some (JMO). Don Soderberg has hypo snows, though, and they have that coral look to them, enhancing the pink hues throughout; so that appears to be a noticeable effect of hypo on an amel animal.
As to the Perlite: Yes, I like it very much. It is less messy, in my opinion, and holds the water very well. Maybe too well, though, if you have a humidity accident! I lost five clutches of eggs this past year, because I messed up on my humidity levels. Thankfully I saved my motley/bloodred dh and th babies! But, that was the fault of the operator, not the Perlite.
Interested
New member
I have been trying to figure all this genetics stuff out. I have read through Serp Widgets tutorial, but I cant really figure something out.
Is the locus for Amel in the exact same place on every single chromosome for everysingle snake?
Is the locus for Amel in the exact same place on every single chromosome for everysingle snake?
Serpwidgets
New member
Do you mean on the same locus of the same chromosome for a given species? In short, yes. At least that's how I understand it.Interested said:
That is, if Amel is gene 23 on chromosome 5 in one cornsnake, then it (or its normal counterpart) is going to be found at gene 23 on chromosome 5 on the rest of them. (But it won't be found at gene 23 on chromosome 1 or 2 or 3...)
However, there is always variation. If there weren't, all life on earth would be identical.
So the long answer is "pretty much."For example, if you start sperm production with this pair of chromosomes:
Code:
[COLOR=blue]ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP[/COLOR]
and
[COLOR=red]ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP[/COLOR]
Code:
[COLOR=blue]ABCDEFGH IJKLMNOP[/COLOR]
and
[COLOR=red]ABCDEFG HIJKLMNOP[/COLOR]
Code:
[COLOR=blue]ABCDEFGH[/COLOR][COLOR=red]HIJKLMNOP[/COLOR]
and
[COLOR=red]ABCDEFG[/COLOR][COLOR=blue]IJKLMNOP[/COLOR]Did that make sense?
Serpwidgets
New member
You're correct. It's something I've been wanting to include in an update I've been putting off for over a year.Darin Chappell said:
I had a few breeders tell me they use Hypo as a starting ground, but it seems like the most common way is just selective breeding.
Serpwidgets
New member
Hypomelanistic is only a name applied because of the outward appearance. Whether or not it's redundant depends on the mechanism behind it.Interested said:
Also, since they're independent traits, a "hypo amel" bred to a hypo would produce hypos, and not amels. It can be handy to have both traits in the same snake.