ANOTHER 'Okeetee phase' or 'Normal' question...

[RustySpringfield]

Hi all.

I posted pictures of Scar somewhere else and only got a couple of replies when I asked whether she qualifies as 'Okeetee phase' or simply 'Normal', so I'm asking the question again here with a poll added this time.

She has thick black saddle rings (some with little flecks of white outlining them), deep red saddle blotches, a snow-white underbelly with jet-black checkers, an orangy brown base colour and two hazy melanin stripes lining each side of the saddle rings running the entire length of her body. Here are some pictures: http://cornsnakes.com/forums/showpost.php?p=586922&postcount=17

Many, if not all, of the 'normals' I've seen pictures of have much thinner saddle rings and many have brown checkers, and this is causing my confusion. I realise also that all Okeetees are 'normals' anyway, and I have no proof of her lineage, but I'm aware that 'Normals' with Okeetee traits (but without proof of Lineage) are referred to as 'Okeetee Phase'.

Opinions from those of you who clearly know a lot more than I do on the subject are gratefully appreciated, as I know how tedious yet another "Okeetee or Normal?" thread must be to many of you.

Thank you.

 

[Roy Munson]

Sometimes this can be somewhat subjective. The snake in question doesn't really have a very vibrant orange groundcolor, and the overall look just seems "off" for an Okeetee-phase. If I owned that snake, I'd call it a normal.

 

[DaGiant]

Yup it looks a lot like my "Classic" or Normal

 

[cka]

I'd call it a normal; you don't know enough (well anything) about it's lineage, and it wouldn't make the cut as far as an "okeetee phase", such as a Love Okeetee or an Abbotts Okeetee. I still think it'd make a good candidate to outcross a known line of Okeetee. JMHO it has that "wild type" look to it, and not just another normal byproduct from a clutch of "whatevers"

 

[susang]

I know we just had a big thread about this, but I'm still confused. So what is this snake?

 

[Roy Munson]

I know we just had a big thread about this, but I'm still confused. So what is this snake?

It's close enough to Okeetee-phase to label it that way, imo.

 

[Nanci]

I voted normal, but I'd like to see a dorsal shot in natural sunlight. She's got thick borders, and I think her colors are near-Okeetee. Think tangerine orange, and brilliant dark cherry red.

This snake is an Okeetee that I have always thought one of the best.
http://cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34358&highlight=raven
And this is Raven as a baby- not the beautiful adult she became.
She's an easy-to-find standard to rate others by, since she is so memorable.

So I'm sort of reserving judgement based on better pictures in natural light.

Like I'm the expert!

 

[Ohana]

In regards to Rusty's snake I would agree with the others. It does have that wild type look to it. I am not versed enough in this, but I would certainly question Okeetee if someone was trying to pass it off to me as such.

If you look at the picture that Susang posted vs the one that you posted you can see a definate difference in the background color. Like Dean said, yours doesn't have enough of that oranginess. It is a tone of orange but has more reddish tones to it.

Just compare the two you will be able to see the difference. It is not always about thick borders.

 

[RustySpringfield]

Thank you everyone for you replies.

I will take some photos in daylight and post them later today. I must say though, from memory, Scar looks ALMOST identical to Susang's in daylight, but perhaps with a slightly less vibrant ground colour.

Either way, it doesn't matter. I'm just have a need to label things and prefer to get it right! Blame my genetics!

Thanks again everyone!

 

[RustySpringfield]

DAYLIGHT PICS

Here's Scar in the daylight...

I'm still thinking 'Normal', but hope these pics help others to draw a conclusion.

 

[Nanci]

I don't know- he's awfully bright...I guess to me he looks more Okeetee than normal. He looks very orange, not tan or brown or gray.

 

[Roy Munson]

He does look brighter in those shots, but I don't know. I'm not sure why it's important to some people to use the "Okeetee" designation. I'd rather call something a normal and have people think "kick-butt normal!" than call it an Okeetee and have someone think "mediocre Okeetee". :shrugs:

I understand wanting an Okeetee. It was important to me at one time to own Okeetees, so I bought a Kathy Love Okeetee and an Abbott's. Both lines come from REAL, Okeetee Hunt Club ancestry, and they conform to all "Phase" description standards as well. There is no question that they're Okeetees. Here's the Love Okeetee:

 

[Ohana]

I would still go normal and I dont' see where that is a problem. It is a really nice looking snake.

 

[RustySpringfield]

He does look brighter in those shots, but I don't know. I'm not sure why it's important to some people to use the "Okeetee" designation. I'd rather call something a normal and have people think "kick-butt normal!" than call it an Okeetee and have someone think "mediocre Okeetee". :shrugs:

It just seems a little unfair to refer to her as merely a 'normal' if she does indeed qualify for the term 'Okeetee phase'.

Maybe I'm just being mental. :uhoh:

 

[RustySpringfield]

I don't know- he's awfully bright...I guess to me he looks more Okeetee than normal. He looks very orange, not tan or brown or gray.

See what I mean? Tough ain't it?

I think I'll probably stick with referring to her as Normal/Classic as that seems to be the general consensus here too.

 

[Roy Munson]

It just seems a little unfair to refer to her as merely a 'normal' if she does indeed qualify for the term 'Okeetee phase'.

Maybe I'm just being mental. :uhoh:

Unfair? To whom? The snake? Believe me, she doesn't care.

Here's the thing. Your snake is every bit as pretty as the snake I just posted, but it's no where near as good an example of an Okeetee-phase. If we're talking about "fair", maybe it's unfair to place her in a category where she's not the best example. If normal is too un-glamorous, then go with "classic". What's wrong with a gorgeous classic?

 

[RustySpringfield]

Unfair? To whom? The snake? Believe me, she doesn't care.

Here's the thing. Your snake is every bit as pretty as the snake I just posted, but it's no where near as good an example of an Okeetee-phase. If we're talking about "fair", maybe it's unfair to place her in a category where she's not the best example. If normal is too un-glamorous, then go with "classic". What's wrong with a gorgeous classic?

Of course, you are absolutely right.

I agree with everything you've just written.

Thank you!

 

[Ohana]

Ya know just as a side note. I absolutely love the normals and want one myself... I love the rich tones that occur. And your snake is a fine example of the beauty that keeps our corns alive in the wild!

 

[Corny Noob]

If it wasn't for the love of the coloration of the normals we wouldn't be keeping Corns in the first place

 

[cka]

Remember too, what makes an Okeetee an "Okeetee" comes down to (in a small part) what one is/looks like to you. Your snake definitely has some "qualifiers"; it's pretty well-bordered, it has pretty good colors, and it also has the wild caught look (thats jmho) that lots of normals don't have. In all honesty it's as much an "Okeetee" as some I've seen up close or posted on the 'net ...

Another jmho: It's a classic wild phase, and I still say a great candidate to breed to a known line of Okeetee :*)