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Antibiotic Series?

C

cait7906

New member
Hey guys,

We took Daisy, our 3 1/2 year old fancy opal, to a vet today because we were concerned about a possible respiratory infection. She was making some "squeaking" sounds during a recent handling. They were sporadic though--about 3-4 times during a 20 minute handling, not with every breath. She also had her mouth a little ajar last night. Not completely open, just doing a little Elvis-like sneer. The vet found no problems in her mouth and no wheezing when he listened to her breathing with the stethoscope. He gave her an antibiotic shot and said we could complete the 5 shot series as a precaution. The only problem is, the vet is 30 minute drive each way and driving out there every other day for the next ten days is a bit of a challenge. Would you fellow snake lovers do that if there was no confirmed respiratory infection? General notes--Daisy was a rescue snake that we picked up just over one year ago. She is kept in a nicely set up 40 gallon breeder that is 90 at its hottest and about 70 at its coolest. She uses hides on both sides equally. Water is changed frequently, she is handled often, eats well and sheds well. Other than being initially skittish due to the sub-par conditions she lived in for her first 2 plus years, she seems like a happy, healthy snake. We will absolutely make the drive to the vet if it is necessary, but I wanted your impressions. Any thoughts? Thank you in advance for the help!
 
Sorry your girl is ill, or might be. Is your vet certified in reptile and amphibian medicine? Were culture samples collected?

I have dealt with RIs a few times over the years, and took my snakes to a certified herp vet. He always took cultures to ID the specific pathogen causing the problem.

In the case of antibiotic injections, the initial dose was given in the office, and I was sent home with the medication and syringes to complete the course of treatment at home. He always prescribed a broad-spectrum antibiotic to use until the culture results came back - usually several days.

I don't know if I would choose to drive to the vet's office for the injections if I didn't know what, if anything, was making my snake sick. Packing them up and transporting is very stressful! Also, is she in shed? I have a few snakes that make a popping/clicking sound right before a shed that can be mistaken for an RI.

If your snake has an RI, the vet should show you how to properly inject the meds, and let you finish the treatment cycle at home. If you haven't done so, I would ask that cultures be done. Maybe seek a second opinion if your vet is not certified in reptile medicine ??

Hope your snake gets better!

Kathy
 
Completely agree with Kathy - a culture would be very helpful here. As for the wheezing - have you checked your snake's nostrils? My Jake wheezed a little at some point, but upon closer inspection he had a tiny broken off piece of substrate lodged in one of his nostrils. Fortunately we were able to get it out without any further issues, and he no longer wheezes.

The antibiotics shots should be fine to give at home, if it is decided that your snake needs them anyway. I'm actually in the middle of giving Saphira an antibiotics treatment - once a day, by injection. Doing it really isn't that difficult, although it helps to have someone hold the snake while you inject the antibiotics. If you want, I could make a short instructional video on how to do it, although I'm sure your vet would show you how to do it as well :)
 
Sorry if this is a bit "back to basics", but is she due a shed? The skin loosens from around the nostrils and snout first, and it can cause huffing, wheezing or squeaking noises as they breathe. It will stop once the shed is finished.

Must admit, I'd be wary of giving antibiotics without more definite symptoms or a diagnosis based on tests.
 
Updates

Hi Everyone! Thank you for all of the great advice. I think the points made about shedding were (hopefully) correct. I chose not to take her to the vet for a follow-up antibiotic shot yesterday, in part because I work doubles on Friday and Saturday and limited vet hours made it nearly impossible, and partly because I know it scares the heck out of her and it did not seem necessary if no problems were identified and no diagnosis given by the vet.

I took her out to hold her today and noticed some clicking noises when she moves, which is a tendency of hers before a shed. She is an opal and has red eyes which turn only slightly opaque before a shed, so identifying when she is in blue is much tougher than with our caramel stripe corn. I also noticed a few dry patches and flaky scales around her head and a few more dry scales on her underside. I soaked her in shallow lukewarm water for a few minutes, which she was none too please with, to get some moisture back in her skin. While handling her after her soak, I noticed some sporadic sneeze-like sounds , which I know some corns make before a shed as well. She did open her mouth occasionally, but not to yawn, and her breathing seemed a little more labored than usual. I could feel and see her breathing with an intensity that I am not used to noticing. However, there was no regular wheezing, no liquid or bubbles around her head--everything looked otherwise normal.

So, my question now is what to do next. I am thinking that you all are right and she might be having some trouble shedding. However, I am reluctant to raise the humidity levels in her viv or place her moss box in there if she might be having some respiratory trouble as well. What are your thoughts? Today is also her scheduled feeding, but I am not sure if attempting a feeding right now is wise or not.

Just wanted to mention how wonderful it is to be able to ask these types of questions and get such thoughtful responses. Much appreciated! I included a photo of her so you all could be formally introduced :) Finally, Bloody Baroness, thank you for the link to the Seattle-area reptile vet! We lived about 90 minutes north of Seattle now and had a more limited set of options to choose from. The vet we found is herp-certified, but knowing of one that has great feedback from reptile lovers is awesome. Thanks!
 

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From what you describe, it seems that she may be getting ready to shed, but the labored breathing would concern me.

If it's just a dry shed, I would have recommended soaking her, which you have already done. Still, the abnormal breathing would have me checking things out further. As Isodael mentioned, did you check her nostrils for any foreign matter? Maybe she's at the start of an RI - not enough mucous being produced to exhibit bubbling, but something may be irritating the lung.

I know it's expensive, time-consuming, and inconvenient, but I always err on the side of caution. If she were mine, I would have a bacterial culture done, or at least let the vet verify her labored breathing, and let him/her make a recommendation. You mentioned that she had no wheezing at the time of her initial exam, but that seems to have changed now.

I would probably hold off feeding her for now. She appears to be in decent shape, so another week won't hurt her as long as she is hydrated.

Good luck, and please let us know how things turn out.

Kathy
 
Kathy,
Thank you again for the detailed reply. We took her back to the vet yesterday and, although he did not do a culture, he did verify that her breathing was labored. He recommended an antibiotic series--one shot of Baytril every other day for the next ten days--which we have now started. Regarding administering the shots at home, the vet is of the opinion that an inexperienced person administering it might harm the snake, and thus it is best done by a professional or a well-seasoned snake owner. He is only charging us for the cost of the antibiotic and nothing for having him give it to her, so that is nice :)

Right now we are just on a "wait and see" regimen. We will have the chance to hold her and observe her every other day since we have to take her to the vet, which is great since she has been particularly reclusive this past week. We did notice when we took her yesterday that her breathing seemed worse and she was opening her mouth more frequently, so it seems like there is definitely a respiratory issue there. We did not find any foreign matter around her mouth or nose, nor did the vet, but that is a great thing to be aware of for the future.

Anyway, I will provide another update as soon as I have one. As I mentioned previously, she was a rescue snake and has always had a bit of an odd personality (we lovingly refer to her as "Crazy Daisy"), but this health scare has made me realize just how attached to her we are. We're keeping our fingers crossed!

One final question--what are your thoughts on continuing to soak her during this time? I am confident she is getting ready to shed, but do not want to up the humidity beyond normal levels in her cage given the circumstances. Would you soak her on a regular basis? She has a water bowl with ample soaking room, though I've never observed her using it for that purpose.

Again, thank you so much for all of your great insights!

Caitlin
 
I'm so glad you took her back to the vet. Obviously sounds like something is going on.

Regarding Baytril, it has been a standard of treatment for a long time. I can kind of agree with your vet about hurting her if you're inexperienced in giving injections - Baytril is caustic, and can cause tissue damage if not injected properly. However, you don't get good at giving injections until you do it yourself! Maybe he would let you give the next injection in the office with supervision.

On that note, my vet uses Fortaz (ceftazidime) for respiratory infections. It is a good broad-spectrum antibiotic, without the causticity that Baytril has. Check with your vet; if I'm not mistaken, Baytril can be diluted with sterile water to help with that issue.

As far as keeping her hydrated, has your vet given any fluid injections? I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to soak her every couple of days for an hour or so, but watch her carefully. You don't want her to aspirate any water if she's already got a respiratory problem.

Thanks for the update, and please keep us posted on her progress!

Kathy
 
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