Anyone with boa experience - Problem feeder...

[NinaCaliente]

We purchased an 08 BCI, Henry, on 11/21. We were told he was feeding on live hopper mice, that he had refused his meal that week, but he had otherwise been a "good feeder".

We brought Henry home and let him settle; first feeding attempt was 11/26 with a FT hopper mouse offered with tongs. He refused - struck at the mouse a few times and hissed, like he was afraid of it. We removed the mouse after about 15 minutes.

Second attempt 11/29, again a FT hopper mouse. First offered with tongs, he showed no interest. We then put him in a plastic container with the mouse inside his cage on the warm side and left him overnight. He did not eat it.

Third attempt yesterday, 12/2. We skipped the tongs and again placed him in a container in his cage, this time with both a FT hopper mouse and a FT pinkie mouse. (I was feeding my corn babies that night too and figured a pinkie was worth a shot.) Left him overnight. He ate the pinkie, but left the hopper.

We were happy he ate something, but concerned that it was obviously a very small meal for him. Tonight DH discussed the issue with a local reptile breeder, who thought we should try offering a live fuzzy mouse and suggested we could try tonight since he only ate a pinkie yesterday.

So DH bought a live fuzzy and placed the snake in the container with the live fuzzy in the cage. Henry showed interest, but did not eat; we planned to leave him overnight. An hour later, he REGURGED the pinkie from yesterday!

What do think could be causing these problems? He is currently in a 20L glass Visionarium cage (the kind with sliding front doors). We have it covered on the back, sides, and top. Heated with UTH on a dimmer. We have been having issues with fluctuating temps due to ambient room temp fluctuation, so temps on the warm side have been ranging 85-95, cool side 75-80. (I have ordered a Ranco thermostat that is scheduled to be delivered on Friday.) Temps are measured with an Accurite indoor/outdoor with probe on the hot side floor, and spot checked with a temp gun. Humidity is steady at about 50%. He spends pretty much all his time in the hide on the hot side. Substrate is aspen.

Would post-regurge protocol be the same for boas as for corns? (I have never had any snake regurge before, but I have read the info on these forums on what to do with corns.) Any advice on what I should change or how we should proceed? Do you think a vet visit is in order???

I'm guessing it was a bad idea to offer him the fuzzy today after he ate the pinkie yesterday... ? We are so worried. Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[LBoz]

Nina, you are in MN where two awesomtastic animal keepers, Trickster and Guru, live. I'd contact either. Jimmy and Sherry are sure to be able to help you out. They've been invaluable to me as a complete and utter newbie. I wish you the very best of luck!

 

[Kokopelli]

We purchased an 08 BCI, Henry, on 11/21. We were told he was feeding on live hopper mice, that he had refused his meal that week, but he had otherwise been a "good feeder".

We brought Henry home and let him settle; first feeding attempt was 11/26 with a FT hopper mouse offered with tongs. He refused - struck at the mouse a few times and hissed, like he was afraid of it. We removed the mouse after about 15 minutes.

Second attempt 11/29, again a FT hopper mouse. First offered with tongs, he showed no interest. We then put him in a plastic container with the mouse inside his cage on the warm side and left him overnight. He did not eat it.

Third attempt yesterday, 12/2. We skipped the tongs and again placed him in a container in his cage, this time with both a FT hopper mouse and a FT pinkie mouse. (I was feeding my corn babies that night too and figured a pinkie was worth a shot.) Left him overnight. He ate the pinkie, but left the hopper.

We were happy he ate something, but concerned that it was obviously a very small meal for him. Tonight DH discussed the issue with a local reptile breeder, who thought we should try offering a live fuzzy mouse and suggested we could try tonight since he only ate a pinkie yesterday.

So DH bought a live fuzzy and placed the snake in the container with the live fuzzy in the cage. Henry showed interest, but did not eat; we planned to leave him overnight. An hour later, he REGURGED the pinkie from yesterday!

What do think could be causing these problems? He is currently in a 20L glass Visionarium cage (the kind with sliding front doors). We have it covered on the back, sides, and top. Heated with UTH on a dimmer. We have been having issues with fluctuating temps due to ambient room temp fluctuation, so temps on the warm side have been ranging 85-95, cool side 75-80. (I have ordered a Ranco thermostat that is scheduled to be delivered on Friday.) Temps are measured with an Accurite indoor/outdoor with probe on the hot side floor, and spot checked with a temp gun. Humidity is steady at about 50%. He spends pretty much all his time in the hide on the hot side. Substrate is aspen.

Would post-regurge protocol be the same for boas as for corns? (I have never had any snake regurge before, but I have read the info on these forums on what to do with corns.) Any advice on what I should change or how we should proceed? Do you think a vet visit is in order???

I'm guessing it was a bad idea to offer him the fuzzy today after he ate the pinkie yesterday... ? We are so worried. Thanks for any suggestions.

You really have nothing to worry about. If you think Colubrids can go on for ages, Boas exceed them without breaking a sweat- Boas are more "primitive" and have come about to exist before today's colubrid's took their more "modern form".
You can see this by the spurs for instance, Boas have vestiges of a deformed hip bone that served some purpose millions of years ago- colubrids do not.
At any rate this means another thing- a Boa's metabolism is slower, and they are less active because of it(they don't move around that much, their meals are further apart, digestion takes longer etc...).
The point I am getting at is that it would take quite a bit of time without food to really harm a BCI.

Couple of notes- 08 BCI's should and are perfectly capable of handling grown mice. Mine isn't the best example because he ended up being the biggest of the litter- at around 3 feet, and 6 months of age...
But the second meal he ever took in life was a grown mouse, and as he started life as a 1 foot only(he has at least 50% Hogg Isle blood in him which makes him smaller)- I believe that your BCI will be able to handle such a meal without too much trouble.

Your first mistake I feel was to remove the food item after 15 minutes- I can tell you that my individual is an extremely shy feeder and it sometimes takes him around 2 hours to decided that it's safe to eat.
If he doesn't eat- no worries, wait another 2 weeks and give him the night to "think it over".
I can assure you that he won't regurge from such a meal unless he is really small.
If indeed your Boa regurges you need to be more strict and not feed for at least 21 days- Boas, as I explained, have a slower metabolic system and as such it will take it a longer period of time to renew the Flora, tissue and stomach acids he lost in the regurgitation.

For comparison purposes I will put a picture of my male Boa, dissregard the morph as it is irrelevent- just focus on his size beside the mobile phone at 21 days of age- on that day, after the pictures, he ate a grown mouse. Not a huge one, but definitely a mature mouse.

 

[tyflier]

I think the main problem right now is stress. 11 days and you have offered 3 feedings. Too much for him, IMO.

A baby BCI *should* have no issue taking a hopper mouse or fuzzy rat straight away. I recommend rats for them because they are bigger and heavier than coluibrids, and the extra fat and protein is beneficial.

Wait 14 days, and offer a live rat fuzzy. There is a more powerful smell from rats, and it is more substantial without being dangerous. Off the live rat fuzzy with tongs. If he takes it, feed him an f/t rat fuzzy in 7 days, and he'll probably take it. If he doesn't take the live RF from tongs, leave it in the cage with him overnight. It can't hurt him, so no worries there.

Give him time. Make sure your temps and humidity are correct and let him settle in for another 2 weeks before you try feeding him again. Give him a nice warm basking area of around 90-93*F, and just let him be for 2 weeks.

He's a boa...he'll come around. And Kokopelli is right. Boas are incredibly efficient digesters and can go for a tremendously long period of time without food. Don't sweat it yet. He's not in any danger. Just give him more time...

And as another comparison, here is a BCI at 4 weeks old:

At this size, he was pounding weanling mice every 7 days. After a month of that, he was pounding rat hoppers every 10 days. These snakes can eat!!

Here he is at a year:

 

[tricksterpup]

I agree with Chris right here, wait a while and you should be fine.

Where did you pick up your snake if you dont mind me asking?

 

[RobbiesCornField]

I wouldn't worry too much. My male Dumerils goes on hunger strikes all the time. After we got him, he didn't eat for over a month! Just take it easy, and leave the item in there for longer than 15 minutes. If necessary, cover him up, and leave the room. Some snakes are shy, and don't like an audience watching them eat.

 

[NinaCaliente]

Thank you all very much for the advice! We will leave him alone for a few weeks then, and focus on making sure his heat is stable. (I can't wait for that thermostat to come tomorrow!)

 

[NinaCaliente]

Okay, we've had a Ranco thermostat set up for a couple weeks now and temps are stable at 93 warm side/82 cool side. We are going to try to feed him again tonight. We could not find live rat fuzzies at any of the local shops, so I guess we will try a live mouse fuzzy again. I am keeping my fingers crossed that he eats something. Wish us luck!

 

[NinaCaliente]

HE ATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We got a live almost-a-hopper mouse, offered it on tongs, and he struck it immediately! (He then tried to eat it sideways , but he eventually got it down.) Thank you all so much for all your advice. Hopefully we have turned the corner with this problem now!