Aspen seems a little dusty. Dangerous?

[Callow Methuselah]

I have searched for and read through several threads on different substrates, but has anyone ever used aspen shavings that were too dusty? I bought a huge bag of "Living World" aspen shavings (more like chips/shavings) and at the bottom of the tank, when I move the shavings away, is aspen dust. Has anyone every known a snake that had respiratory problems as a direct result of aspen substrate that was too dusty?

 

[speedy13]

sometimes it just depends on the brand

 

[ratsnakehaven]

I only use "shredded" aspen, which you can order from "thebeanfarm.com."

Any wood products are going to have some dust involved. The most notorious are cedar shavings and some of the cheap products used for other pets, like rodents. Even shredded aspen has a certain amount of dust involved. That's why I often spray my cages, especially just before feeding, or just after cleaning. I often put crumpled newspaper on top of the aspen and around the hides and water jugs which absorbs the spray and helps hold down any dust and raises the humidity. It's benficial to both the snakes and the keeper.

 

[Em Wright]

I prefer the shredded aspen. It looks nicer and I don't notice dust like I do with the shavings.

 

[ratsnakehaven]

I prefer the shredded aspen. It looks nicer and I don't notice dust like I do with the shavings.

I agree. I only used the aspen chips once and now have a whole bag of it in my garage that I probably won't ever use again. The chips are dustier and drier than the shredded aspen. They can help dehydrate your snakes, imho. I know folks that use it who have also had snakes getting respiratory infections and also impactions from eating the chips, so I have some opinions from that too. I strongly recommend feeding your snakes in a bare container or on some kind of harmless substrate that cannot be ingested. The only good thing I can see about the aspen chips/shavings is that they are cheap; but cheap can be expensive in the long run.

For many years I have ordered the 50 lb. bag of shredded aspen from the Bean Farm. There aren't any stores close enough to me that have it for me to bring it home in the car. The aspen only costs about $18, but the shipping is outrageous. However, one bag lasts me for over a year, and benefits far outweigh the costs. I also used shredded aspen for my mice when I was raising my own mice. I only buy frozen mice now. The shredded aspen worked great for the mice too, and I've never had any reaction to it. I have asthma. I do have reactions to dust, occasionally, which is another reason I sometimes spray the bedding, especially when I first use it. This is the only wood-based substrate that I haven't had a reaction to.

Another plus for the shredded apsen is that it helps in the maintenance of your snakes. It is very absorbent and easy to clean. I usually do spot cleaning. The snakes either defecate on the newspaper on top of the bedding, in their water jugs or hides, or in the aspen. If they do it in the aspen, which is not that often, it dries quickly and can easily be removed leaving most of the aspen behind. To tell the truth, I usually only do an entire removal of the aspen bedding a few times a year. Then I totally clean the glass tanks, plastic containers, and throw out everything else, replacing them with new ones. The system works great for me and saves mightily on labor and cost.

BTW, most wood products have an odor or toxins associated with them, especially when they're moist, or fresh cut. Aspen might arrive moist from some suppliers, so you can let the bag of aspen sit for some time outside or in your garage, etc. This insures that the apsen is dry when you use it. This usually depends on who you get your substrate from. Also, some kinds of wood products have been known to harbor critters, so a few folks even think that mites can come in wood products. I think leaving your bag of shavings to sit for about a month gets rid of that possibility too. Having said that, I can vouch for the Bean Farm, in that I've never had any problems with their product. There may be other good suppliers out there, but I've never had the need to try them.

Hope this helps... :wavey:

 

[carnivorouszoo]

I know for a fact that wood chips tend to harbor mites, but I have only seen the mites that come in this way bother rodents and birds, not snakes. I used to use wood chips for all my caged critters but got sick of dealing with the mites and now use wood pellets made for wood stoves. No issues and very easy to spot clean with a shop vac. When they get wet they turn to dust but it goes to the bottom of the cage, just remove the critter(s), scoop out the whole pellets into a seperate container and vacuum the cage once a month. Spot cleaning, just point the hose over the waste and suck it up and yer done. I can try to get a video of me doing either way next time I need to.

 

[Callow Methuselah]

You think my corns could get mites from the "Living World" aspen shavings/chips? That is not something I want, but I swear, since I've found this forum, everything that I was doing that seemed to work for my first snake was apparently wrong and I've been stressing about this or that w/ regard to the corn's temperatures, feeding, weight, bedding, etc.

I really do appreciate all the helpful experts who post in here--as well as the informed hobbyists.

I'm going to the sauna to relax.

 

[ratsnakehaven]

You think my corns could get mites from the "Living World" aspen shavings/chips? That is not something I want, but I swear, since I've found this forum, everything that I was doing that seemed to work for my first snake was apparently wrong and I've been stressing about this or that w/ regard to the corn's temperatures, feeding, weight, bedding, etc.

I really do appreciate all the helpful experts who post in here--as well as the informed hobbyists.

I'm going to the sauna to relax.

I've never used "Living World" aspen, so have no opinion there.

I've been working with snakes, especially ratsnakes, for more than twenty years. Let me say that there's always more to learn, room for improvement, etc, partly because we try new species all the time. It can seem overwhelming to a beginner, but really, we're talking about corn snakes here, the most popular pet snake in the world. These are not hard snakes to care for. Most of what you will learn will be basic for all snakes, but some things are important for corn snakes in particular. For instance, corn snakes tend to digest at higher temps than most other ratsnakes.

I think most of what you need to know you can find in the FAQ Section. All the basic info you need is there. Most of what you find on strands like these has to do with personal opinions of folks, and sometimes these folks don't agree on things. You asked a specific question, however, having to do with bedding. I think most corn snake keepers will agree that they like shredded aspen the best. Look at the strand about showing off the vivs. Almost all the vivs have shredded aspen in the bottom of the cage.

Raising a baby corn snake is a piece of cake, as long as you don't deviate too much from the norm. It would be hard to kill a baby corn unless you deprived it of water, didn't feed it for months, or roasted it, or some such thing. If you have any other questions, ask away. There's a few folks around that don't mind rehashing the basics for the heck of it, or just to remind themselves what they need to do, or to talk about new setups, or whatever.

:cheers:

 

[carnivorouszoo]

You think my corns could get mites from the "Living World" aspen shavings/chips? That is not something I want, but I swear, since I've found this forum, everything that I was doing that seemed to work for my first snake was apparently wrong and I've been stressing about this or that w/ regard to the corn's temperatures, feeding, weight, bedding, etc.

I really do appreciate all the helpful experts who post in here--as well as the informed hobbyists.

I'm going to the sauna to relax.

No. Like I said the mites I have seen come in with wood chips only ever seemed to bother rodents and birds. I would find them in the snakes water dish but when taken to a vet the snakes themselves were mite free. Wrong kind of mite I guess. :shrugs:

Snakes are a constant learning process, just when you think you have it figured out you get another snake and they like things different :twoguns: Crazy snakes lol. Don't take it too hard that you had to change things a bit to take better care of your pet. Its a good thing that shows you really care and are willing to learn to do what they need.

 

[Callow Methuselah]

Yeah, I would have deleted my post but apparently don't have that option. I'm not upset to learn that I've been doing something the "wrong" way; I'm thankful to learn a better method. It's slightly frustrating, though, when I read a bunch of conflicting opinions from people who seem to know a lot about corns.

Another source of frustration: my unregulated UTH worked fine for my first snake during his first year, and I never saw him on the glass above the pad (although he was in the hot hide from time to time, which was 85*F at substrate level). But on the glass it was pushing 120, so I got freaked out after reading a bunch of threads and purchased a few rheostats for him and his buddies. Then I found a post that said the ZooMed Repti Temp 150w rheostats (that I purchased online) don't allow the mat to get cool enough. So not only does ZooMed advertise their UTH's as safe for snakes, but even their rheostats (which should make the pads safer) don't do the job.

I love animals of all kinds, but I've never been a pet guy. The things that appealed to me about corns were their docile nature, low cost of care, and low time commitment they required. The snakes sure are good-natured, but I've spent a butt-load of money and it's taken sooo much more time than I thought it would. I don't have a "disposable pet" mentality, and I spent several hours reading up on corn care and consulting others in the business before buying my first one. But practically EVERYTHING the girl at Petco told me in the beginning was flat-out wrong, and while there's general agreement among people on this forum, it seems as though the specifics are always being debated. (I bought my second two snakes after being assured that they could live together by not one, not two, but three "herp experts")

I still haven't made it to the sauna. Can you tell? :/

 

[carnivorouszoo]

Hmm, yeah never listen to people at petshops as a rule. Had one petsmart tell me gerbils are evil biting machines but hammies are sweethearts, I grew up with killer hammies and have the scars to prove it, raised gerbils for 16 years too got bit once by a psyco anti social fluke of a gerbil I bred lol. All the others were so super sweet!

I just saved a couple of corns whose old owner was told by the pet store they could live together forever no problems. Sadly she was also told by a friend who only had ball pythons that ALL snakes should be that fat and had her feeding her corns like crazy trying to make them look like BPs. Even when she told her friend she had learned she was wrong, the friend insisted the snakes must be sick to be so thin. The male is just under 1000 grams and the female has insane "hips" of fatty deposits. You'd be amazed how sincere people can be in their beliefs that their info is correct without knowing they are setting people up to fail. Even more give out bad info not caring if it is right or not, it was what they were told by their bosses or other friends and they never checked on how good the info was.

As to the Herp Experts? Gerneralizing like that and just calling yourself a herp expert tells me you know a little about a lot of different herps. If you call yourself a corn expert I expect you to know your stuff on corns. Like Kathy Love does. If you do not already I recommend getting her book. She knows her stuff. (the places I say "you" in this paragraph refer to other people in general and not to anyone in particular)

 

[carnivorouszoo]

Ack, I did not mean that BPs are Fat, I meant Big! Sorry!

 

[ratsnakehaven]

Yeah, I would have deleted my post but apparently don't have that option. I'm not upset to learn that I've been doing something the "wrong" way; I'm thankful to learn a better method. It's slightly frustrating, though, when I read a bunch of conflicting opinions from people who seem to know a lot about corns.

I don't know the specifics of the conflicting opinions you're talking about, but differences do occur, because no two hobbyists are exactly the same. We have different experiences, different preferences, etc. But some things are constant and these are the basics. For instance, you can't keep your snakes at 100*F. and expect them to thrive. It just won't work.

Another source of frustration: my unregulated UTH worked fine for my first snake during his first year, and I never saw him on the glass above the pad (although he was in the hot hide from time to time, which was 85*F at substrate level). But on the glass it was pushing 120, so I got freaked out after reading a bunch of threads and purchased a few rheostats for him and his buddies. Then I found a post that said the ZooMed Repti Temp 150w rheostats (that I purchased online) don't allow the mat to get cool enough. So not only does ZooMed advertise their UTH's as safe for snakes, but even their rheostats (which should make the pads safer) don't do the job.

Ughhh! I hate products that get overheated, like hot rocks and heat pads that get over 100*. I just use a small vivarium UTH, 6" X 11", that fits under one end of the tank and produces bt 3 and 10*F. aditional heat for snakes that need extra for digestion. Otherwise, I don't use any additional heat. Even corn snakes don't need to be over 83* to be able to digest and they can digest at much lower temps, if and when they're conditioned properly. IMHO, folks generally keep their snakes too warm all the time.

I love animals of all kinds, but I've never been a pet guy. The things that appealed to me about corns were their docile nature, low cost of care, and low time commitment they required. The snakes sure are good-natured, but I've spent a butt-load of money and it's taken sooo much more time than I thought it would. I don't have a "disposable pet" mentality, and I spent several hours reading up on corn care and consulting others in the business before buying my first one. But practically EVERYTHING the girl at Petco told me in the beginning was flat-out wrong, and while there's general agreement among people on this forum, it seems as though the specifics are always being debated. (I bought my second two snakes after being assured that they could live together by not one, not two, but three "herp experts")

I still haven't made it to the sauna. Can you tell? :/

I love animals of all kinds too. I've been working with animals since childhood and that was long ago. Corn snakes are the ultimate pet snake. I'm not really a pet snake guy much either. My thing is locality snakes that can be developed for the pet hobby. I like the perfect snake, but many different species. I see your frustration and know from many, many years of experience where it comes from. There's no easy fix there, it takes time to get comfortable with a new hobby and the in's and out's. You have to get a feel for it and part of that comes from making mistakes and taking losses, etc.

I would first recommend getting familiar with the kinds of people in the hobby. Most of us know that pet shop people rarely know what they're talking about when it comes to reptiles and pet shops are usually aweful places to find nice herps, although I did buy my first ratsnakes and corn snakes from a pet shop back in the 70's. There used to be some good ones. Nowadays, I do everything online with people who have the best reputations. Then there's folks who are pretty much experts and those who just think they are experts. Look at a variety of opinions and try to get a line on things that works best for you, remembering that different folks have different strokes, and sometimes there's more than one way to skin a cat.

I'm assuming that you have a couple pretty young corn snakes, maybe babies. I'll advise you to lose the big heating element. Babies are easy to care for, but don't need to be over heated, over fed, or have huge cages with odd bedding. I have a pair of baby Miami corns right now. I keep them in shoe boxes with no additional heat other than room temp. They could stand a little more heat for digestion maybe, but they'll be ok under my system and be more hardy as a result. They are on paper towelling in the shoe box with additional towel balled up to hide under. There's a cup of water too. They eat pinky mice, one or two a week, but they'll be fine if they miss a week or two, also. After all, it's almost winter and snakes don't grow much during winter anyway. The most important thing is surviving. They'll grow a lot once it warms up in March/April and room temps start getting up around 82-83*F.

PS: I don't want you to be discouraged, the reason for being long winded. Good luck with your new hobby. Happy Thanksgiving.

:cheers: