basic question

[mocha37]

I have a few basic questions on corn snake care. I am new to these beautiful creatures and so really want to know that I am providing the best possible care. I was told my little corn is 11 months old and she(Phoenix) is around 18 inches long. I have seen on here people suggesting feeding the younger snakes every five days instead of every 7, which is the best?

Also I live in a semi desertish place so do i need to mist my snake? I am also having trouble with the heat. I have a under the tank heater and a lamp as well because neither seem to be doing the job on their own. The pet store owner told me i need to keep the warmer side at 90 and the cooler side at 80 but it is so unstable.

I don't think she/he has been held much because she shys away a little when I go to pick her up, but is really curious and explorative when I have her out. Is it natural for them to spend most of their time hidden? The tank is near a sound system could the viberations be scaring her, and should she be cool to the touch when being held. Sorry that there are so many question I just want her to be as happy and healthy as possible.

 

[HerpsOfNM]

I have a few basic questions on corn snake care. I am new to these beautiful creatures and so really want to know that I am providing the best possible care. I was told my little corn is 11 months old and she(Phoenix) is around 18 inches long. I have seen on here people suggesting feeding the younger snakes every five days instead of every 7, which is the best?

Some have different views that others, but for me I try to feed my young snakes bi-weekly and usually on a Wed/Fri or Wed/Sat schedule. Many years ago, when Rich Z's Serpenco existed, before 9/11 and when Bob Applegate was a huge name in (king/milk/gopher) snake breeding I was privileged to stay at Bob's and get the grand tour. While in his hatchling/Heladermatid room we got to talking about feeding frequency. His philosophy was to feed multiple small meals. The idea was to keep the animal at optimal temps and the multiple small meals keeping the metabolism up to get the young'ns off of small prey (pinkies/fuzzies) and over to larger, assumingly healthier, more complete prey.

Also I live in a semi desertish place so do i need to mist my snake? I am also having trouble with the heat. I have a under the tank heater and a lamp as well because neither seem to be doing the job on their own. The pet store owner told me i need to keep the warmer side at 90 and the cooler side at 80 but it is so unstable.

You live in Los Lunas...there's nothing desertish about it...it is desert, the northern edge of the Chihuahuan Desert. LOL

I keep my corns in appropriately sized sterilite tubs within self-built racks. The general setup is aspen bedding as substrate, a water bowl large enough for the snake to fully soak, and a moist/warm hide. I use 3inch flexwatt currently powered by an old ESU thermostat (while I wait to re-save $$$ for a herpstat 2, stupid truck). In tubs the size of a "blacket box" (2ft x 16 inches x 6 inches) I place a sterilite "shoe box" (6x6x11 inches??) with a 2inch hole cut in the lid. The shoe box is then filled half way with moistened bed-a-beast (the original), aka coconut coir, coco coir, coconut fiber, tropical soil, forest bed, or eco earth by various brands. My thermostat is set to control internal cage temps to 86°F, with the cool end running 10-15° cooler. My herp room usually holds at 74°F dead of summer with the swamp cooler running.

I don't think she/he has been held much because she shys away a little when I go to pick her up, but is really curious and explorative when I have her out. Is it natural for them to spend most of their time hidden? The tank is near a sound system could the viberations be scaring her, and should she be cool to the touch when being held. Sorry that there are so many question I just want her to be as happy and healthy as possible.

Yes it is. Most of my snakes spend a fair amount of time hidden within various hides (my tessera hasn't learned that concept yet?!) during the day and then are out exploring at night, unless recently fed. Most advise against placing any herps near stereo/sound systems due to more sensitive sense of hearing and touch. Snakes "hear" through their lower jaw, which is connected to inner ear bones. Unless you keep your cornsnake at about 98°F, she'll pretty much also feel cool or cooler to the touch. Reptiles are poikilothermic (=an organism that's body temperature varies with the temperature of its surrounding environment), we are homeothermic. Ours hands are usually around the 90-94°F range, thus items that temp range or cooler will feel cool.

No need to apologize for asking questions, we all started at the beginning at some point too.

 

[HerpsOfNM]

The should be:

Some have different views than others...

In tubs the size of a "blanket box"

I need a spare $25 for an edit button.

 

[bitsy]

Hello and welcome! Here are my thoughts:

I was told my little corn is 11 months old and she(Phoenix) is around 18 inches long. I have seen on here people suggesting feeding the younger snakes every five days instead of every 7, which is the best?

The frequency of feeding depends on the size of food she's eating. The larger the food item, the longer it takes to digest. As a general guideline I feed:
- Pinkies, 1 every 5 days
- Fuzzies, 1 every 5-7 days
- Small mice, 1 every 7 days
- Medium mice, 1 every 10 days
- Adult mice 1 every 14-21 days

However that can safely tweaked if they appear to be too skinny or too tubby. Once they're on adult mice, most won't need to eat anything larger for the rest of their lives.

Also I live in a semi desertish place so do i need to mist my snake?

Unfortunately I live in the UK and don't have this type of problem! Hopefully others will be along with practical experience and advice.

I am also having trouble with the heat. I have a under the tank heater and a lamp as well because neither seem to be doing the job on their own. The pet store owner told me i need to keep the warmer side at 90 and the cooler side at 80 but it is so unstable.

I'm afraid you've been given less than ideal advice there. The warm side floor surface needs to be around 85 and the cool side floor needs to be in the low-mid 70s. 90 for any length of time can actually be dangerous for Corns if they can't get to a cool enough area and get away from it.

You need to make sure that you're firstly measuring the temp at floor level, as that's where the snake is. There are a range of views on the importance of air temp in the tank, but I see it as much less critical then getting temps correct where the snake is actually experiencing them.

Secondly, are you measuring the temps with a digital or infra-red thermometer? The plastic dial-type or cardboard strip types can be wrong by 20+ degrees either way and those are the ones normally supplied with starter setups. My nephew was given one with his first Corn setup and it didn't even move when the undertank heater (UTH) was accidentally unplugged.

If you have both a heat lamp and UTH and neither have a thermostat or dimmer to regulate them, the chances are the temp on the floor in the tank is very much hotter than you think. As a very rough guide, 85 is around 10 degrees lower than human core body temp. If you put your hand on a tank floor which is at 85, it will barely feel warm to you. If it feels hot to you, then the surface will feel scalding to the snake.

We'd usually recommend one or the other. I use a UTH under one-third of the tank, controlled by a thermostat. You can use a cheaper dimmer as an alternative controller. Thermostats cost more but work better in rooms where the temp fluctuates a lot, as dimmers need to be turned up/down by hand. Plenty of folks here use heat lamps successfully, but again they need a controller and they do have the effect of drying out the air in the tank and lowering humidity, which is not ideal for your location. Air con can further dry the air.

I don't think she/he has been held much because she shys away a little when I go to pick her up, but is really curious and explorative when I have her out. Is it natural for them to spend most of their time hidden?

Absolutely normal, yes. Corns in the wild are active at times of low or no light - dawn, dusk and overnight. You'll rarely see her out and about during the day, even as an adult (although there are always exceptions which love to roam!).

New arrivals are especially nervous and inclined to stay hidden and out of sight. They gain confidence as they get used to you and grow, so you could well find that she becomes more bold as she gets older.

As for being shy of handling, my gang are always shy of being picked up to start with. It's just the instinct which tells them that something is trying to eat them! However most will calm down once you have hold of them and they realise that it's "only you" and they're in no danger.

The tank is near a sound system could the viberations be scaring her

They're very sensitive to vibrations (they don't have ears as mammals do and so are evolved to sense and experience sound through vibration) so this might be a factor.

and should she be cool to the touch when being held.

Yes absolutely. As above, their ideal max is below human core body temp. They will usually feel cool unless you've picked them straight up from a heated part of the tank floor.

These are all excellent questions for a new owner - thanks for taking the time and trouble to ask. Looks like your little one has found a great home

Hope I've helped!

 

[mocha37]

Thank you all for the great advice. I said I'm in the semi desert because I have friends from AZ who get mad if we say were from the desert . Can anyone suggest a good UTH brand or anything? I really don't want to dry her tank out anymore then the air already does and so would prefer to get rid of the lamp. The one I have was for a lizard and only does one temp.

I never thought about the stereo system until the other day when she was out and someone turned it on and she disappeared right away. Will definitely have to rearrange.

As for the measuring the temp what I had was what originally came with the tank which is a black strip on the side. Would one of those ones that measure the humidity be good as well? This shoe box with the moistened bedding is it to help with the humidity of the tank itself? She is in a 40gallon breeder tank with lots of vines, two water dishes(one large one small) and a large log hide. (oh and coconut bedding) Does this sound ok?

When I got her I talked for some time with the pet shop owner for advice but joined this forum knowing you all would probably know more about them, and it looks like I was right. I think they gave me some misinformed advice there and I want my little one to be as healthy and happy as possible. HerpsofNM: being from NM is the humidity difficult to keep at a good spot? Thank each of you again for all the great advice

 

[Nythain]

Thank you all for the great advice. I said I'm in the semi desert because I have friends from AZ who get mad if we say were from the desert . Can anyone suggest a good UTH brand or anything? I really don't want to dry her tank out anymore then the air already does and so would prefer to get rid of the lamp. The one I have was for a lizard and only does one temp.

Lamps can be done properly by adjusting bulb wattage, height above tank, and or dimmer switch. I'd still recommend a UTH though, as I personally feel that since Corns aren't arboreal, they benefit more from a radiant belly heat, similar to that which the earth puts off naturally. As for brands, just about any brand can be and usually is good. Zilla and ZooMed I believe both make variable sized under tank heaters. Just make sure you get an appropriately sized one, should cover 1/4-1/3 of the length of the tank. NOTHING MORE.

As for the measuring the temp what I had was what originally came with the tank which is a black strip on the side. Would one of those ones that measure the humidity be good as well? This shoe box with the moistened bedding is it to help with the humidity of the tank itself? She is in a 40gallon breeder tank with lots of vines, two water dishes(one large one small) and a large log hide. (oh and coconut bedding) Does this sound ok?

You will definitely want to invest in a couple digital thermometers with probes, or just one and a good infra-red laser thermometer. You should have at least one right next to the temperature probe for the thermostat you're going to need to control the UTH (a thermostat is a must here, or at least some form of regulation, those things get too hot for corns unregulated). Those should be on the glass/wood/pvc flooring of the enclosure itself, above the heat pad. You can use a second thermometer, or the IRL to get a reading of the warm side ground level (on top of the substrate, but not in the air. That's not where your snake is.)

Hygrometers don't have to be quite as accurate, some people use cheap analogs, some people use digital ones, there's a popular Indoor/Outdoor with Humidity thermometer by Accurite that can act as an all in one package. Most people probably don't even have a hygrometer for their corns though, since they thrive in "normal" humidity it's never quite an issue unless you live in an arid environment, or your corn suffers bad sheds.

The moist hide will be a place the snake can go if it needs more moisture, and if designed well *can* increase ambient humidity but it's not the best method. Since you're using a coco husk bedding, it will do wonders for the humidity alone. The husk will hold moisture well, and slowly release it into the atmosphere. You could also consider using a little bit of properly moistened sphagnum moss around the enclosure, or better yet, consider increasing the rooms ambient humidity with humidifier. I can't recommend a humidifier or fogger for the enclosure itself, as these generally lead to moisture build up or over humidification... both of which have bad results for corns.

 

[HerpsOfNM]

Thank you all for the great advice. I said I'm in the semi desert because I have friends from AZ who get mad if we say were from the desert .

Pfft.... from about Isleta (roughly the northern limit of creosote in NM) south is a narrow finger that broadens out that entails the northern limits of the Chihuahuan Desert. They're just "mad brah" cause you live in the largest desert in North America. :bird: Shoot, we only get 1 monsoon season; they get 2 monsoons (summer and winter).

Can anyone suggest a good UTH brand or anything? I really don't want to dry her tank out anymore then the air already does and so would prefer to get rid of the lamp. The one I have was for a lizard and only does one temp.

Nythain got ya covered pretty well here...

As for the measuring the temp what I had was what originally came with the tank which is a black strip on the side. Would one of those ones that measure the humidity be good as well? This shoe box with the moistened bedding is it to help with the humidity of the tank itself? She is in a 40gallon breeder tank with lots of vines, two water dishes(one large one small) and a large log hide. (oh and coconut bedding) Does this sound ok?

I usually don't utilize a hygrometer due to how inaccurate even digital ones can be. If you really want to be scientific about it you could look into investing in a Kestrel which I've used for field work when I did a herpetofauna inventory of Carlsbad Caverns National Park back in 2004. They are capable of giving you humidity and relative humidity, as well as various other weather readouts, but they'll set ya back $150+.

I typically only use 1 thermometer, placed on the basking/heated side of the cage so that I can make certain what my thermostat is set to is what my cage and thermometer are getting to.

The moistened hide is something I find useful for species such as corn snakes, milk snakes, and king snakes. Our native great plains rat snakes (once a subspecies of corn snake) live in areas more moisture promising than other snake species. Because of how dry we tend to run out here (e.g., the current fire weather conditions we have due to low humidity and high winds) I provide moist hides for my terrestrial and semi-terrestrial snake species. I couple this with a single water bowl large enough for the snake to get into to soak, should the moist hide get too dry. I generally remoisten the hides when I notice snakes going into shed cycle and try to keep them at least dampened for young corns and other snakes as they are more prone to dehydration.

When I got her I talked for some time with the pet shop owner for advice but joined this forum knowing you all would probably know more about them, and it looks like I was right. I think they gave me some misinformed advice there and I want my little one to be as healthy and happy as possible. HerpsofNM: being from NM is the humidity difficult to keep at a good spot? Thank each of you again for all the great advice

Out of curiosity, this wouldn't happen to be the new pet shop I'm hearing about down in Belen? I work for one of the large, corporate stores (tangent...I'm the former Museum Naturalist [curator] for the Las Cruces Museum of Natural History with 25+ years keeping experience...followed my wife up to ABQ and such a job was all my BS in biology and years experience at the museum got me; lame but at least I've got a job) here in the ABQ area and I've already corrected a number of new and regular customers in regards to the information I've hear coming from that shop. That's not to say they are a bad shop (I've yet to visit it), but with any animal to be kept as a pet....research, research, research. You might even look into joining the NM Herp Society; they meet on the first Thursday of every month at the Rattlesnake Museum in downtown ABQ. Lots of knowledgeable people in it, though I'm not (rather no longer circa 1999) a member.

 

[Guruofchem]

The moist hide is an excellent idea, and a 40 gal breeder gives you plenty of space to add one. As far as thermostats go, Zilla makes adequate ones, a lot of folks on here use ones made by Hydrofarm (run about $30-35 on Amazon), and there are fancier ones for $100 and up if you want to spend the coin on one that is less likely to fail. You plug the UTH into the thermostat and set that to maintain the desired temps. The thermostat will come with a temp probe that should be attached inside the cage to the glass directly above your UTH, and under the bedding; that temp should be set to around 85 degrees F.

With the dry air you have, I'd not want to use above tank lights, as they will dry things out a lot. You might want to cover part of the top (assuming it is screen of some kind) with a damp towel - if you cover about half the width of the tank, but in the middle of the top, you can use the temperature gradient itself to pull air in on the cool side and have it rise out on the warm side.

 

[beautifullywild77]

I live in Albuquerque. I do not mist my corns. When I see them going blue, I will put in a humid hide. On the glass vivs, I also put a damp towel over half of the top.

I use uth with thermostats and do not use overhead lamps.

In the winter, I do run a humidifier for myself and kids which in return helps the snakes. In the summer we have a swamp cooler which humidifies the air. I do not have issues with bad sheds either.

 

[mocha37]

HerpsofNM: Yes it is a newer one in Belen. They are very friendly and all but from what people say on here and the research I am doing I just don't think they know as much as I thought about corns. You have offered some amazing advice so thank you so much and I will look into the herp society. I really appreciate hearing from such experienced people.

I will definitely be getting a thermostat and possibly a new UTH. The other day I was gone for three hours came home and checked on Phoenix as usual, and discovered that the floor above the UTH was way to hot. So will definitely be upgrading to one that helps control that.

It is awfully dry here so thank you all for the advice on the lamps. Will definitely be getting rid of that. Also all the moisture tips sound wonderful. There are a few different wet hide ideas, does anyone know what may work the best. Gruofchem: it is a screen top so will look into the towel idea.

 

[beautifullywild77]

I use moss and a sour cream hide for little guys and a butter hide for adults.

We do live in a desert, it just doesn't have the same kind of plants as AZ LOL I have lived here all my life. Was just saying the other day how much my skin has been craving lotion.

 

[mocha37]

Beautifullywild77: Is there a certain type of moss or would it just be in the reptile section of a pet store. My skin is the same which is why I've been kind of concerned because I know a lot of people said they can have a bad shed if its too dry.

 

[beautifullywild77]

I use sphagnum moss in all my hides. I have found a few of my snow or blizzards that will shed without me realizing they went into blue. They have shed with no problems. The most I get is the tip of the tail that will stick and that is easily taken care of with a moist rag and have them run through it.

 

[HerpsOfNM]

Just cause AZ has organ pipe cactus, saguaro cactus, and their creosote has extra chromosomes doesn't make them any more of a desert. :noevil: :argue: :blowhead: :angry01: :laugh: :wavey:

Sphagnum (long-grain....can get at Lowes for around $4-5 for a bale in their indoor garden area....near orchid supplies, might be sold as Better-Gro orchid moss) moss is great, as is the coconut fiber you mentioned you're already using. The coconut fiber will get somewhat fairly dusty if it dries out. Whatever you use, you want it moistened, not wet. Add enough water to rehydrate it and then squeeze out all excess water.

As Guru said, for the UTH, the zoomed or zilla ones you find at that Belen shop, or up in ABQ at PetSmart or Petco will get the job done. You want to cover 1/4 to 1/3 of the cage bottom. I looked into that hydrofarm thermostat a while back and if I were on a budget that would be an excellent little thermostat to get the job done. As it is, I'm invested in Helix and Spyder Robotics thermostat and wasn't aware of the hydrofarm until I joined this site.

If you want to keep any lighting on the tank, just a simple tube/linear fluorescent light should do and I'd stick to the UTH for heating.

Off to let my contacts and allergies enjoy all this wonderful wind, it's spring in NM.