Blizzard + Bloodred

[Homicidal Nymph]

Hey, I'm just getting into snakes (only have one bloodred corn) but I really want to breed in a few years. I'm thinking of getting a male blizzard to breed with my female bloodred, but I'm confused as to what the outcome would be. Would I get some blizzards and some bloodreds, or some snows and some bloodreds, or is bloodred dominant and I'd get a bunch of then het. for snow or almelanism?<p>

Just trying to understand snake genes more, as it's definately more complicated than humans, and I haven't really studied this for a few years.

 

[Marcel Poots]

To start a project with Bloodred Blizzard is not your best choise. Blizzard is patternless and Bloodred is a gene that makes a pattern fade away. So to create snakes homozygous for Bloodred and Blizzard would seem pointless. Then if you would do it the first generation would all be normals. Blizzard is Homozygous Anery B (Charcoal) and Amelanistic. So your offspring would all be het Bloodred het Anery B and het Amel. If you breed these to each other you could get Bloodreds, Amel Bloodreds , Pewters, Amels, Aneries and Blizzards.

 

[Drizzt80]

To start a project with Bloodred Blizzard is not your best choise. Blizzard is patternless and Bloodred is a gene that makes a pattern fade away. So to create snakes homozygous for Bloodred and Blizzard would seem pointless. Then if you would do it the first generation would all be normals. Blizzard is Homozygous Anery B (Charcoal) and Amelanistic. So your offspring would all be het Bloodred het Anery B and het Amel. If you breed these to each other you could get Bloodreds, Amel Bloodreds , Pewters, Amels, Aneries and Blizzards.

I don't want to disagree with Marcel, because I do respect his knowledge, but I would correct him in that a Blizzard is not patternless. It is lacking both red and black and often times yellow making it APPEAR to be patternless. From my experience a blizzard's pattern is still there, it is just more difficult to discern due to the lack of color for contrast. My male blizzard's pattern shows up quite readily when placed in the proper lighting or the right angle with the camera.

With that said, I agree completely with everything else Marcel had to say!

D80

 

[Serpwidgets]

I've got what appears to be a diffused blizzard. We crossed two charcoals het amel and diffusion, which hatched two blizzards in the clutch, one with belly checkers, and this one without belly checkering. It is getting yellow highlights around the dorsal saddles. There's no visible side pattern yet, and I'm not sure if any will ever appear.

or is bloodred dominant

Bloodreds (good ones anyway) are the result of selective breeding as well as being homozygous for the diffusion pattern gene. The pattern gene can show some of its influence in hets but is not dominant, at least not enough that you'd get bloodreds in the first generation. Blizzards are homozygous for both amel and charcoal. So breeding a bloodred to a blizzard would look like this, gene-wise:

A⁺· A⁺, Ch⁺· Ch⁺, D^D· D^D
X
a^a· a^a, ch^c· ch^c, D⁺· D⁺

And your first generation would all be triple hets:
A⁺· a^a, Ch⁺· ch^c, D⁺· D^D
(Normals, possibly showing some bloodred-like qualities, but definitely not bloodreds themselves.)

A good way to start that would be blizzard X pewter. Then your first generation would be charcoals instead of just het charcoal.

 

[Serpwidgets]

BTW here are pics of the snake taken a few weeks ago. I think I can see a trace of side blotches, but it's nowhere near as "visible" as the dorsal pattern, which is almost invisible itself.

<IMG SRC=http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21228&stc=1>
<IMG SRC=http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21229&stc=1>
<IMG SRC=http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21230&stc=1>

I seem to recall that Rich Z said he hatched some of these, and to his surprise they had a stronger pattern than a regular blizzard. Who knows what kind of variation will ultimately show up, but in the meantime this one is pretty cool to look at.

 

[Marcel Poots]

I don't want to disagree with Marcel, because I do respect his knowledge, but I would correct him in that a Blizzard is not patternless.

LOL, you don't have to excuse yourself for disagreeing. You are absolutely right. Blizzards do have pattern. Bloodreds do also have patterns when they are young. What I was aiming at is how they would looke like as an adult. My guess is that an adult Bloodred Blizzard is hard to separate from a normal Blizzard. There for imho it would be a waist of a good project.

 

[Menhir]

I wouldn't call it a complete waste. The result of that project would be animals compatible with Bloodreds, AmelBloodreds and Pewters. So, such an animal would be a great male for breeding porpuses!
If you mean waste of a project for getting a special look I do absolutely agree with you. But perhaps the start doing crazy things when they grow up. I'll ask Daniel for pictures in 2 years to back that up. :grin01:

 

[Serpwidgets]

And don't forget what happens when you bring the ultra gene into the mix.

 

[Homicidal Nymph]

Okay, well, thanks for all the info! I'm not really starting a "project," I wish I could, but I doubt I'd be allowed to do that much breeding and have that many snakes.<p>

What are the best options for breeding a bloodred for good first generation offspring? (I already have the bloodred)

 

[Roy Munson]

Okay, well, thanks for all the info! I'm not really starting a "project," I wish I could, but I doubt I'd be allowed to do that much breeding and have that many snakes.<p>

What are the best options for breeding a bloodred for good first generation offspring? (I already have the bloodred)

I'd get another bloodred, but I'd get one that is homo for another trait too. If you got a pewter, you could make more pewters by crossing the offspring. Same goes for hypo-blood, or anything-blood. That way, you can keep a few outstanding bloodred het for "X" snakes from the first generation, and you wouldn't have much of a problem getting rid of the surplus animals. Bloodreds have decent market value and demand, and bloodreds het for something else can even have a higher asking price. Just my opinion.

 

[magick-bears]

Well being a Bloodred purest I would recommend getting another Bloodred of the highest quality possable and if at all possable het free. I used to breed Bloodreds back 10 to 15 years ago. I have been away from breeding for 10 years. Of course when I decided to get back into Corns I went looking for some Bloodreds. Well after over 2 years of looking I just got a pair last month. Mine are het Hypo but they have the look I wanted. To be honest I will most likely only hold back the non Hypo offspring as I want to develop a line of "pure" Bloodreds with the look of the old Bloods.

Just my $0.03
~Jeff C.

 

[Homicidal Nymph]

Im sorry if these questions seem rather ignorant, but what's the different between homozygous and heterozygous? I always see "bloodred het lavender" or something like that, which I know means it's bloodred but carries the other gene, so if it's bred with something that has the same genotype as it it'll produce 3/4 the dominant phenotype (a quarter of which will be completely dominant) and 1/4 the other phenotype.

But I forgot what homozygous means...

 

[magick-bears]

Im sorry if these questions seem rather ignorant, but what's the different between homozygous and heterozygous? I always see "bloodred het lavender" or something like that, which I know means it's bloodred but carries the other gene, so if it's bred with something that has the same genotype as it it'll produce 3/4 the dominant phenotype (a quarter of which will be completely dominant) and 1/4 the other phenotype.

But I forgot what homozygous means...

Each genetic trait is controlled by two genes or a gene pair. If the genes are the same the animal is homozygous (homo) if they are different then they are heterozygous (het).

If an animal is an Amel then it would be homo Amel. So in your example your Bloodred het Lavender would be homo Diffused and het Lavender. It is trickier with Bloodreds because the Diffuse pattern is the genetic trait while the color is from selective breeding. With all the outcrossing to other morphs that the Bloods have gone through many no longer have that deep blood red color any longer.

~Jeff C.

 

[Homicidal Nymph]

Oh, I was wondering why older pictures of bloodreds seem to be really, really deep while most of the recent pictures I've seen are more orange-red. I personally prefer the deep, dark red myself.

Would it be possible to make any color patterness with the bloodred gene? For instance, an all black snake?

 

[colinmcc]

If you already have a bloodred, a charcoal is an option.

Your F1 generation will produce pewters then. (See menhir's avatar on page one). Lovely snakes and not that common a morph either so should be easy to sell on the non-keepers.

I'm sort of hoping to go down that route myself in a few years (I don't yet have either the bloodred or the charcoal though ... lol).

Thing to be careful of, if thats the route you take, is make CERTAIN the charcoal is a charcoal and not just a plain old anery (well, it's anery B - charcoal - you want, anery A will not produce pewters).