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cage heat versus heated room
- Thread starter pdrau
- Start date
HomeBreeder
Herphilious Lunacious
A week or two back I posted a poll asking basicially this question - do you provide specific temp gradients, or use ambient temp to keep your corn snakes warm?
While LOTs of people looked at the thread, only a few responded to the poll. I got the impression that it's about half and half, with most folks that use ambient temps also conviniently living in areas of moderate temperature fluctuation, such as Florida.
If it means anything to you, I have 3 types of herp setup - glass aquariums with U.T.H.s, "Rubbermaid" rack system with heat-tape, and finally, I also have a small room that I keep over 80 degrees where some of my corns are in quarantine. While I've never had a problem of a herp regurging in an aquarium I have had snakes regurge in both the other setups. Odd, no? Why would the rack-snakes regurge just as often as the ambient snakes, but the aquarium snakes have never had any sign of health trrouble? Probably just a statistical flaw, since more than 80% of my herps are NOT housed in glass.
But the bottom line, I think, is that ambient snakes CAN be just as healthy as gradient snakes, but I would never presume that temp control is the only thing keeping them healthy... i.e. a warm room does not a happy snake make, but if the ambient snake has a cozy hide, and can cool-off with a little bath, it has as good a chance as a gradient snake.
YMMV,
^Curtis
While LOTs of people looked at the thread, only a few responded to the poll. I got the impression that it's about half and half, with most folks that use ambient temps also conviniently living in areas of moderate temperature fluctuation, such as Florida.
If it means anything to you, I have 3 types of herp setup - glass aquariums with U.T.H.s, "Rubbermaid" rack system with heat-tape, and finally, I also have a small room that I keep over 80 degrees where some of my corns are in quarantine. While I've never had a problem of a herp regurging in an aquarium I have had snakes regurge in both the other setups. Odd, no? Why would the rack-snakes regurge just as often as the ambient snakes, but the aquarium snakes have never had any sign of health trrouble? Probably just a statistical flaw, since more than 80% of my herps are NOT housed in glass.
But the bottom line, I think, is that ambient snakes CAN be just as healthy as gradient snakes, but I would never presume that temp control is the only thing keeping them healthy... i.e. a warm room does not a happy snake make, but if the ambient snake has a cozy hide, and can cool-off with a little bath, it has as good a chance as a gradient snake.
YMMV,
^Curtis
Thanks for the in depth reply. I live in south Louisiana where we have very little if any cold months to speak of. I'm moving into a new house that has a detached two car garage. I'm considering insulating it and installing a heater/ac unit to regulate the temperature. The rack system I want to use/build is similar to the ones offered for sale at Bush Herp Supply. Since they are going out of business in September, I don't think I'll be able to purchase them. I suppose I'll wait and see what other responses I get before deciding what to do. The rack seems to be designed for use with ambient heating as opposed to gradient. I currently use UT heaters on glass aquariums and have never had a problem with regurg.
Peter
Peter
Tim Madsen
New member
I keep my snakes in a insulated shed. I use a small heater to regulate the temperature of the shed in the cooler months and a fan to keep it from getting to hot in the Summer. I live in Southeast Virginia and the temperture can have wild swings at times. It can be a real pain sometimes keeping up with the weather. My snakes seem to do fine in this setup. IMHO
Gregg
Ancient Elder
A hold out for ambient heat
I prefer ambient heat. Why? Because under tank heaters are too expensive. One is okay, two maybe, but after four or five it gets to be too much. Besides, once you get all those heat-mats, you have to get an equal number of dimmers or regulators with which to control them. Then, you'll have to get a power strip, or two, or three, into which you'll plug all those electrical plugs.
I say, "Wait! Stop! Enough is enough!" We're talking about snakes that don't need a tropical atmosphere in order to survive and thrive. They are temperate environment snakes. I have had my share of snakes regurgitate, but when they have it hasn't been because it was too cold for them. It was always because they got simply too much to eat. Back off on the size, and they came back on line. My first corn snake, Spot, was raised without any regard for temperature, room or tank, and he has survived, without regurgitating since 2000 in perfect health. If it gets too cold, I think they shut down, i.e., begin brumating, and won't eat.
Of course, ask any group of people and you're likely to get an answer for each person present. I think it would be different if we were talking Tropical Reptiles, then we would all say about the same thing.
I prefer ambient heat. Why? Because under tank heaters are too expensive. One is okay, two maybe, but after four or five it gets to be too much. Besides, once you get all those heat-mats, you have to get an equal number of dimmers or regulators with which to control them. Then, you'll have to get a power strip, or two, or three, into which you'll plug all those electrical plugs.
I say, "Wait! Stop! Enough is enough!" We're talking about snakes that don't need a tropical atmosphere in order to survive and thrive. They are temperate environment snakes. I have had my share of snakes regurgitate, but when they have it hasn't been because it was too cold for them. It was always because they got simply too much to eat. Back off on the size, and they came back on line. My first corn snake, Spot, was raised without any regard for temperature, room or tank, and he has survived, without regurgitating since 2000 in perfect health. If it gets too cold, I think they shut down, i.e., begin brumating, and won't eat.
Of course, ask any group of people and you're likely to get an answer for each person present. I think it would be different if we were talking Tropical Reptiles, then we would all say about the same thing.
Well, as you may guess by my handle, I don't have any corns. =)
I do have a little milksnake (well, he's supposed to be a larger species, but he just ain't a big snake) and I've had him on a shelf above my leos for some time. I was using a human heat pad set on low to provide a thermal gradient, and he spent the majority of his time off the heat pad, which was putting the temp around 85-86. When my beardie babies hatched, they were setup on the shelf below him, and with five 60 watt bulbs burning there all the time (note, this is an open wire shelf, so the heat build up isn't too severe), the heat pad was overkill. I turned it off and his ambient temp stayed around 82-84. What I noticed then, is that when it was warmer, he'd spend most of his time curled up by his water bowl, and take an occasional dip in it. Otherwise, he'd spend more time laying stretched out, or under his hide spot.
I think in a larger cage, a warm spot is a good thing, probably necessary, but in a smaller cage (he's a 35" snake in a 24x12 cage) such as this case, perhaps ambient heat has some advantages: Since he doesnt' have to avoid the warm end, he can spend more time stretched out, which helps decrease the chance of respiratory problems, and he tends to soak a little more frequently, which helps keep him hydrated. He can get cooler if he needs to, by hugging his water dish or taking a swim.
On the other hand, you've got leopard geckos, which many people keep the juveniles at ambient temps, and it has been shown that juvenile leos with a thermal gradient grow better.
I think the key thing is to give the animal options. In the case of a snake like the milk, which prefers cooler temps, then a cool off area (porceline water bowl, or as Pro Exotics does, cut a hole in the base of a decorative type water bowl so they can use the base as a cool hide) is a decent option.
How much of this applies to corns, I can't say, of course. =)
I do have a little milksnake (well, he's supposed to be a larger species, but he just ain't a big snake) and I've had him on a shelf above my leos for some time. I was using a human heat pad set on low to provide a thermal gradient, and he spent the majority of his time off the heat pad, which was putting the temp around 85-86. When my beardie babies hatched, they were setup on the shelf below him, and with five 60 watt bulbs burning there all the time (note, this is an open wire shelf, so the heat build up isn't too severe), the heat pad was overkill. I turned it off and his ambient temp stayed around 82-84. What I noticed then, is that when it was warmer, he'd spend most of his time curled up by his water bowl, and take an occasional dip in it. Otherwise, he'd spend more time laying stretched out, or under his hide spot.
I think in a larger cage, a warm spot is a good thing, probably necessary, but in a smaller cage (he's a 35" snake in a 24x12 cage) such as this case, perhaps ambient heat has some advantages: Since he doesnt' have to avoid the warm end, he can spend more time stretched out, which helps decrease the chance of respiratory problems, and he tends to soak a little more frequently, which helps keep him hydrated. He can get cooler if he needs to, by hugging his water dish or taking a swim.
On the other hand, you've got leopard geckos, which many people keep the juveniles at ambient temps, and it has been shown that juvenile leos with a thermal gradient grow better.
I think the key thing is to give the animal options. In the case of a snake like the milk, which prefers cooler temps, then a cool off area (porceline water bowl, or as Pro Exotics does, cut a hole in the base of a decorative type water bowl so they can use the base as a cool hide) is a decent option.
How much of this applies to corns, I can't say, of course. =)
Sounds like ambient is going to be the solution for me. With all the shade I have around the garage, it shouldn't be a problem keeping the temp down to 82-84 in the warmer months, which is most of the year here. It shouldn't take much to heat the garage to 82-84 in the "winter" or stabilize it at brumation temps with minimal effort. This opens up a whole lot more caging solutions for me to use.
Peter
Peter