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Can anyone check my homework?

rivernamir

Step down McFlower-Power
Ok, first let me just say that I am totally prepared for the n00b bashing and that I appreciate any help that you can give me.

That being said, I am trying to figure out Punnett squares and learn genetics. I used to be perfectly content to just sit there and say uh-huh, uh-huh, about all the genetics stuff (smile and nod you know?) But now its just getting to interesting in here. So, I am probably wrong but heres what I started with...

Normal X Amel= 100% Normals het for amel

Normal X Snow= 100% Normals with 50% het for amel and 50% het for anery

Snow X Amel= 50% Snows and 50% Amels

Snow X Anery= 50% Anery and 50% Snow

Anery X Amel= 100% Snow

Am I even close?
 
Well...not close exactly.....

Normal x Amel = 100% normals het for amel

Normal x Snow = 100% normals het for amel and anery

Snow x Amel = 100% amels het for anery (snow)

Snow x Anery = 100% Anerys het for amel (snow)

Anery x Amel = 100% normals het for anery and amel
 
Well I could be wrong so I can get flamed as well but I think it's;

Normal x Amel= 100% Normals het amel

Normal x Snow= 100% Normals het for Snow

Snow x Amel= 100% Amel het for Anery

Snow x Anery= 100% Anery het for amel

Anery x Amel= 100% Normals het for Snow
 
this obviously requires further study. I remember doing the square in highschool biology with blue eyes, brown eyes ect...but this is getting much more complicated...
 
You really need to study a little bit more. Get a good book like the Cornsnake Morph Guide.

The Amel allele and the Anery allele are on different loci. That is what messed you up on your guesses above.
 
It is A LOT easier to figure out if you ditch the combo names like snow (and ghost, blizzard, etc) and call it an anery amel. If you start thinking of it as those two traits in one snake, you should find it easier to calculate.
 
Off Topic

It is A LOT easier to figure out if you ditch the combo names like snow (and ghost, blizzard, etc) and call it an anery amel. If you start thinking of it as those two traits in one snake, you should find it easier to calculate.

Kathy what do you think about that buff gene ????????
 
I have cut way back on the number of snakes I work with because I am just a one person business with no helpers. So I have been very selective with what I work with. I thinned out whole projects, such as my hypo okeetees.

I did take a look at the buff when some photos or links were posted a while back. It didn't look different enough from other types that it really caught my eye. So I have not really studied it too much. There are just so many corn morphs out there, and a number of them look somewhat like other types. So unless you want to produce 4 or 5 thousand babies like Rich does (been there, done that, no thanks, lol!), you have to carefully pick and choose the ones that appeal to you the most.

So I can't say that I studied it carefully enough to give more opinion other than that it just wasn't something that caught my eye enough to work with it, or to study it more. But good luck on the project!
 
where would I find such a book as the cornsnake morph guide? I have checked my local bookstore but they are somewhat limited on what they have as far as cornsnakes go. Same for the pet stores. I do have a book called "Corn and Rat Snakes" and of course, a copy of "The Cornsnake manual"

**Goes to re-read the Manual**
 
I sell Chuck's books (the annual Morph Guide and also his book on genetics) on my site, as well as a few other corn books. Or you can buy them directly from the author. His site (with lots of good genetics info) is www.serpwidgets.com. My site is in my sig.
 
Thanks! I will try to make a note to look at it sometime when I am not so crazy with babies! It is fun and relaxing to "chat" on this forum before I go out to work, but absorbing new info is something I like to do when I am not in such a rush.

I don't think I have seen any of those corns in person at any American shows. Once I see them in person, they may seem more exciting to me.

Thanks again.
 
Then you must come to europe to the netherlands and thats not around the corner and live they look mutch different.There is only one breeder who have seen them and can tel howe they look like and today there is comming the second breeder to see them in live.I can only tell and makes pics from what i see.
 
this obviously requires further study. I remember doing the square in highschool biology with blue eyes, brown eyes ect...but this is getting much more complicated...

It's not any more complicated than that. All of the corn morphs, so far, are simple recessive, so once you have simple recessive Mendelian genetics down, you're good to go.

So as you said, normal x amel = 100% normal all het for amel.

Lets let "A" equal the wild type copy of the gene (the 'normal' gene) and "a" equal the amel version of the gene. Cornsnakes each have two copies of each gene. So a normal (with no hets) would be AA meaning it has two normal copies. An amel would be aa meaning it has two mutated copies. When you breed them together each parent donates one copy to the off spring. So each hatchling gets an A and an a making them Aa. They still look normal, but are now carriers for amel. Still with me?

Now lets say you breed two het amels together: Aa x Aa

Each parent still donates just one copy of the gene. So each parent can donate either A or a (but not both). If any of the hatchlings have an A copy, they will be normal. If they each get A from both parents then they will be AA and look normal. If they each get an a then they will be aa and be albinos. If they get A from one and a from the other then they will be normal, but be het. This gets tricky because you can't visually tell (for the most part with most genes) the difference between AA and Aa. So when you breed two hets together, with the normals you can't tell who is het and who is normal.

This can be illustrated with a Punnett square. One parent is horizontal, other is vertical. Each possesses one copy of each gene type. Now just match up each gene in each 'box' to get the predicted off spring.

. A a
A AA Aa
a Aa aa

You can see that 1/4 will be homozygous amel. Since there are 3/4 that will have a normal phenotype, two out of the three will be het, so the normals have a 66% chance of being het and a 33% chance of being homozygous wild type.

Sorry for the long post, hopefully this makes some sense. Start with just fully understanding how one simple recessive gene works (just amel, anery, stripe, etc). Then once you have that, you can work up to multiple recessive genes (i.e. snows, opals, fires, etc).
 
Thanks Blueapplepaste, for taking the time to explain that so fully. i completely followed what you said. And that part I understood. I even had it right in my original post. I get screwed up when I go beyond Normals and Amels. for instance, what if you are adding in the carmel gene?
 
(Sorry for the repetition, just to be complete: :) )

- A snake can be "homozygous" for a gene --> you see it
- A snake can be "heterozygous" for a gene --> you (normally) don't see it, but it is within.

- Any "gene" is a genetic defect/alteration in function of color cells,eg

Amelanistic --> No melanin/black color (Red/Pink Snake)
Caramel --> no red color, enhanced brown & yellow (Brown/Yellow Snake)
Anerythistic --> no red color (Grey/Black Snake)
...

- Just deal one-per-one with the genes:

Normal X Caramel = Normal het. Caramel
Amel X Caramel = Normal het. Amel & Caramel

- Concerning inheritance, it's (for the simple cases) not important if the "gene" is Amel or Caramel or Lavender or Hypo..., the all work like blueapplepaste described.

- Of course there are combinations, eg Butter = homo Caramel & homo Amel

For these combos, check the Cornsnake Morpg Guide ot the authors page:
http://www.serpwidgets.com/Morphs/Combos/combos.html#Snow


If you browse this page a little bit it could help, eg http://www.serpwidgets.com/Genetics/genetics.html

It quite a bit stuff to read, but just keep on reading, it's a wide and fascinating topic!
Greetings,
Talinea
 
Thanks Blueapplepaste, for taking the time to explain that so fully. i completely followed what you said. And that part I understood. I even had it right in my original post. I get screwed up when I go beyond Normals and Amels. for instance, what if you are adding in the carmel gene?

As Talinea said, any single morph/mutation in corns (so far) works just as I described. What I described is known as a simple recessive (meaning two copies are needed) genes. Caramel, lavender, stripe, hypo, anery, etc work in the exact same way as described.

Now, if you add two genes in the mix, it gets more complicated, but still works in more or less the same way.

Lets try an example and throw caramel in the mix. So lets say you have amel x caramel. The wild type caramel gene we'll call C and the mutant we'll call c. So the amel corn is aaCC and the caramel corn is AAcc. The amel has two copies of the wild type caramel and two copies of the mutant amel gene. The caramel is just the opposite. Each parent will donate one copy of each gene. So the amel gives a and C and the caramel gives A and c. So we get: amel x caramel = normal 100% het caramel and amel.

Also aaCC x AAcc = AaCc

All are appear normal, but carry mutant copies of each gene. Now, lets say you breed two of those together, what will we get. Well there's a very simple way to look at it, but it lacks other genetic possibilities, and there's the more complex.

The easiest way is that for each gene there is a 1/4 chance of getting an animal homozygous for the mutated copy for either gene. Refer back to my earlier post. So there's a 1/4 chance that the offspring will be amel and there's a 1/4 chance that they'll be caramel. Now the chance of them being amel and caramel, we simply multiply the odds for each gene on its own. So 1/4 x 1/4 = 1/16 chance of producing an amel caramel or a butter.

So there's a 1/16 chance of producing a double homozygous mutant. But what about odds for the rest? Back to the Punnett square, except now it gets bigger. Same as before. Each parent donates one copy of the gene. So each will donate either A or a and either C or c. So for each parent the possibilities of combinations donated are AC, Ac, aC, and ac. These are the 4 possible genetic donations a single parent can have with regard to the caramel and amel genes. So these 4 will make up our punnett square.

. AC Ac aC ac
AC AACC AACc AaCC AaCc
Ac AACc AAcc AaCc Aacc
aC AaCC AaCc aaCC aaCc
ac AaCc Aacc aaCc aacc

So we see that there are 16 different genetic possibilities with this pairing. You can see that 1/16 will be homozygous amel and caramel (butter), 1/4 will be homozygous amel, 1/4 will be homozygous caramel, and so on. You can also see any amels (aa) have a 2/3 chance of being het caramel (just like my earlier example) and any caramels (cc) have a 2/3 chance of being het amel. You can also notice that 15/16 will be het or homozygous for at least one gene. Only 1/16 will be completely homozygous wild type.

You can do this for any combination of genes, and for any number of genes, you just keep expanding the square.

One thing to keep in mind also, is that all of this genetics is just probability. When I say 1/4, it means that the probability is 1/4. But nothing is guaranteed when it comes to the odds. So if and when you start breeding, if you have a double het animal pairing and they lay 16 eggs, it doesn't mean that 1 of them will definitely be double homozygous. It means that each egg has a 1/16 chance of being double homozygous, but its not guaranteed.
 
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