Caramel Charcoal Anton Von Leeuwenhoek

[Alaya]

I figured it was time to use the new camera and capture some pictures of Mr. Anton Von Leeuwenhoek. He is a caramel charcoal male purchased from Matthew at Blue Apple Herps. He still has his feisty, strikey days, but is starting to calm down. He had his first shed here this morning, his second ever. Came off clean and whole, so I'm happy. He was 9 grams when I fed him today, which is the same as 6 days ago when he was last fed.

Before I purchased him as a hatchling:

Today:

Hi!

Swallowing his dinner

Waiting, impatiently, for his pinky

His viv. His favorite hiding place is the smaller cardboard box. He hides under the log while digesting.

I hope to take pictures of him each shed to show how a Caramel Charcoal progresses. There aren't many out there.

 

[Susan]

Lovely snake, but IMO, the caramel gene is wasted on him. I think it's a shame that both anery and charcoal mask caramel. It seems that with lavender, some caramel influence is seen. And I want to see more examples of caramel with cinder before making my final judgement there.

 

[Blue Apple Herps]

Iris, so glad he's doing well for you! Thanks for the update on him, can't wait to see how he progresses.

Lovely snake, but IMO, the caramel gene is wasted on him. I think it's a shame that both anery and charcoal mask caramel. It seems that with lavender, some caramel influence is seen. And I want to see more examples of caramel with cinder before making my final judgement there.

Susan, actually, the caramel charcoals are "different". When they first hatched they looked like regular pewters, but after a few sheds started to get some bronze-like colors.

My yearling caramel pewter female has some yellow/bronze colors coming in on her saddles that become more pronounced with each shed. Now granted the extent of this difference has yet to be seen, as these were only first produced by me last year. So whether these colors will become more pronounced as they age or fizzle out is unknown.

Here's a pic of her from a few sheds ago:

(sorry for the hijack Iris)

 

[Alaya]

Lovely snake, but IMO, the caramel gene is wasted on him. I think it's a shame that both anery and charcoal mask caramel. It seems that with lavender, some caramel influence is seen. And I want to see more examples of caramel with cinder before making my final judgement there.

I don't understand how an allele can ever be "wasted". I'm fairly new to corn snakes, and don't understand the specific of how many of the different morphs are alleles located at the same gene locations, or are separate genes, or what the variation of linkage (space between the genes) is. But I am a scientist with a solid history of genetics, and I think that any project that further helps us understand these concepts is worthy. How do we know yet what Matthew will be able to produce with his projects? I have a lot of respect on how he focuses on understanding how a small set of alleles work together, instead of trying to produce a massive amount of "popular" morphs (that comment is not directed at any one individual).

I really regret not picking up a caramel pewter when I bought my caramel Charcoal.

In the fourth picture above you can see that Mr. Anton von Leeuwenhoek has a definite caramel color developing. The black really lightened this shed, and the caramel is really noticeable in person. He's an absolutely fascinating snake to watch, I can hold him and study his pattern for an hour and still be fascinated by it. His head is highly iridescent, which spread out through his body after this shed.

A closer look at his caramel charcoal coloring:

 

[Alaya]

Apparently picasa doesn't post full size pictures through direct links (I will not be putting my snake photos into photobucket), but I am more than happy to send anyone the full size image over email if they are interested. It is a fairly true to color picture, with no flash.

 

[Susan]

Iris, so glad he's doing well for you! Thanks for the update on him, can't wait to see how he progresses.



Susan, actually, the caramel charcoals are "different". When they first hatched they looked like regular pewters, but after a few sheds started to get some bronze-like colors.

My yearling caramel pewter female has some yellow/bronze colors coming in on her saddles that become more pronounced with each shed. Now granted the extent of this difference has yet to be seen, as these were only first produced by me last year. So whether these colors will become more pronounced as they age or fizzle out is unknown.

Here's a pic of her from a few sheds ago:

(sorry for the hijack Iris)

I stand corrected and have learned something new! I was simply going by the one image and a hazy memory of maybe one or two others I may have seen. It's great to see there is a definite difference in phenotype!

I don't understand how an allele can ever be "wasted". I'm fairly new to corn snakes, and don't understand the specific of how many of the different morphs are alleles located at the same gene locations, or are separate genes, or what the variation of linkage (space between the genes) is. But I am a scientist with a solid history of genetics, and I think that any project that further helps us understand these concepts is worthy. How do we know yet what Matthew will be able to produce with his projects? I have a lot of respect on how he focuses on understanding how a small set of alleles work together, instead of trying to produce a massive amount of "popular" morphs (that comment is not directed at any one individual).

I really regret not picking up a caramel pewter when I bought my caramel Charcoal.

In the fourth picture above you can see that Mr. Anton von Leeuwenhoek has a definite caramel color developing. The black really lightened this shed, and the caramel is really noticeable in person. He's an absolutely fascinating snake to watch, I can hold him and study his pattern for an hour and still be fascinated by it. His head is highly iridescent, which spread out through his body after this shed.

A closer look at his caramel charcoal coloring:

By "wasted", I was stating that since the presence of the caramel gene made no difference in the phenotype (or so I had thought when I made that statement), that it's effect, which I love very much, was lost on that particular morph combo. I now see that caramel DOES have an effect on the phenotype and is well worth the effort of combining those genes. I feel the same way with the combination of anery, charcoal and amel. Adding anery to a blizzard still results in a white snake. And I have yet to see a consistent difference in phenotype with the caramel snows and the caramel anerys. That's all I meant.

 

[Hillybean]

Very pretty snake!!

Now a question...charcoal is said to in some snakes not even have any yellow pigment, wouldn't the caramel bring yellow into the snake for sure?

Sorry its most likely a newbie question!

 

[schnebbles]

He's pretty!

 

[Onarian]

Here is my caramel pewter, Alcyon. He is the brother of the female that Matt posted earlier. In the last 6 months he's begun to look more and more like a pewter, a beautiful light pewter with amazing diffusion, but a pewter none the less. Perhaps this is a combination that expresses itself more in females than males. It'll be interesting to find out.

 

[Blue Apple Herps]

Now a question...charcoal is said to in some snakes not even have any yellow pigment, wouldn't the caramel bring yellow into the snake for sure?

Yes, in general, they have reduced yellows, but there are plenty of charcoals with lots of yellow and plenty without it as well. And how the caramel fully affects the gene remains to be seen. All we have are yearlings right now.

 

[Blue Apple Herps]

Here is my caramel pewter, Alcyon. He is the brother of the female that Matt posted earlier. In the last 6 months he's begun to look more and more like a pewter, a beautiful light pewter with amazing diffusion, but a pewter none the less. Perhaps this is a combination that expresses itself more in females than males. It'll be interesting to find out.

Onarian, interesting how yours is looking more and more like a normal pewter. Maybe there is some sexual dimorphism? I don't know, so far, mine keeps looking more and more "different", but like I said, that change could fizzle out or stop becoming more pronounced. I guesso nly time will tell, thanks for the update though, he looks amazing in his own right!

 

[Alaya]

Anton Von Leewenhoek shed again last week, but I wasn't able to take pics due to being out of town for Thanksgiving. I did snap a few today before feeding time. He doesn't have much caramel color in the bright light, but if I take him in to a shaded area his browns really come out. I wish I had a normal charcoal to compare him to, as I am really curious how the caramel and charcoal genes work together.

After the third shed of his life:

He's up to 17 grams while empty today! I'm amazed how much he has grown, he was 6 grams when he got here in September. He just loved getting a second (tiny) pinkie today.

 

[Blue Apple Herps]

He's looking great!! Has he settled down at all for you yet?

 

[Alaya]

Yes and no. He went through a long period of not being handled much, due to the timing of eating, going blue and shedding, eating, me being gone and eating again so now he's not as used to being handled again. He doesn't strike on non feeding days, but is uncomfortable about being handled. I'm sure with time and handling he'll calm back down. He is a ferocious eater and gulps down his food in half the time it takes my sand boas. He's tripled in size since he got here, which I just find amazing.

 

[Alaya]

I am a busy, busy girl and have such a hard time getting photos. Little Anton has had two more sheds. He doesn't have new skin right now, at least two weeks since his last shed. His colors change dramatically in different light situations. Sometimes he is glowing golden, others he has no caramel at all. I'm certainly enjoying watching him grow up.

Today, on a towel. Not the best, but its cold, and so this is what I got. He's real sweet, but likes his independence.

 

[Blue Apple Herps]

He's looking great! Thanks for sharing them, keep 'em coming. Really enjoying watching how he's turning out.

 

[Alaya]

Thanks Matthew . He's a really great snake. I love how his colors change completely in different light levels. He's definitely a snake I take out when I want to stare in wonder.

 

[zorro]

He's looking great! Thanks for sharing them, keep 'em coming. Really enjoying watching how he's turning out.

From the first pic to the last my monitor he looks caramel and ends up looking pewter, is that how they start?
I have always loved the caramel pewters and wish I had the room for another project.
John

 

[Alaya]

John - I hotlinked to his hatching pic on Matthew's website. When he changed what photo was named the same, my hotlink got messed up. My fault, I shouldn't hotlink to someone else's site. I don't have the ability to pay for editing right now, so the first picture is just incorrect. He looked just like the second picture as a hatchling. I got him as an out of egg sale, so I've had him since he just hatched.

I nearly bought his caramel pewter sister. I regret it to this day that I didn't buy her too. I might have to buy one next year if Matthew has another available.

 

[Blue Apple Herps]

From the first pic to the last my monitor he looks caramel and ends up looking pewter, is that how they start?
I have always loved the caramel pewters and wish I had the room for another project.
John

John,

The male I sold last year to another member here seemed to be that way. So far my '11 female caramel pewter that I held back has been keeping her yellow/bronze saddle colors. I need to try to get some new pics of her (she's feisty and squirmy as hell though).

How these will look as adults, who knows? I'm hoping they keep the caramel wash, but only time will tell.

I'm still not sure if I'm going to be doing this pairing again this year - ended up with a lot of caramels and butters that have been impossible to move out. So not really sure if its worth it. Might just wait for '13 when the caramel pewter is up to size and breed her back to her sire, my sulphur.