(CHIP help?)My hognose snake is going to die

[Spencer]

I can feel it. There is nothing I can do about it. As much as I try feeding with every method possible the damn thing wont eat. I tried assist feeding and he just spits it back out, and I REALLY hope its the mouses blood i have all over my hands but I have a feeling it may be the snakes. I really dont see why he wont eat. I really dont know if I can deal with an animal dying in my care.

why would he not eat....... I dont understand.........


Hes losing weight. I am starting to be able to see his spine. He looks hungry.....

its bad....i just want him to eat. Why does he hiss at the food.... hy does he spit it out. Why doesnt he want to eat. this hunger strike is disconcerting. Ive already tried the vet. The most they can offer is a shot of nutrients which doesnt make any sense because It still wont help him to start eating.

 

[Nanci]

Are there any more experienced snake keepers near you, who can show you how to assist feed him? You have to hold his mouth shut once it's in there, until he swallows.

Have you tried frog or toad scenting? That is your single most best bet.

 

[Spencer]

Nanci.... I'm the only one who likes snakes....and I'm in a foreign country Where hardly anyone speaks my language (esl teacher) the pinky is to big to fit in his mouth. But....I managed something....I cut the head off and stuck that on his mouth....and either I didn't see him spit it out or he ate it. I think he ate it, and he hates me. But just a pink head, not sure the good it will do. He's squirming tons when I hold his head. And with the head, even scraped myself on his teeth. Not bad, But I had to use my fingers. Tongs aren't good.as for frogs.....or toads....I really can't find any in Japan, except the kind that are like 80 dollars and meant as a pet, and no offense., But I don't want a pet toad

 

[Shiari]

I actually use a chopstick to shove pinky heads into non-feeders. I... kinda put it into the brain case from the back and use that to get it past the jaws. Then by carefully holding the head in place from the outside with my fingers, I remove the chopstick and help the snake get it down the rest of the way.

 

[Spencer]

SHiari. Thanks. I have an abundance of chopsticks here in japan. And they are the pointier ones too. Great idea. Yet with only heads, not sure how long here can hold off on only them

 

[Alli_Draggy]

Does he do the hoggie threat display where he reacts and eventually plays dead? According to our herpetologist friend (who works with Eastern Hognose), one of the better ways to get a stubborn hoggie onto mice is to wait until they play dead, and then stick a scented pinkie in their mouth when it's open. Usually, they taste it there and instinct takes over.

Are frogs used as a food animal at all in Japan? I know they are in China, and even if you could just get some frog legs, you could use them for scenting. Not as good as a fresh toad from the hoggie's point of view, but closer to their food source.

Another option might be if you could get some pond water from somewhere amphibians live. Basically, make the mouse smell less like a mouse and more like something the hoggie likes to eat.

 

[Spencer]

No frogs are not used at all. Ill ask tomorrow But I doubt it highly. Food in Japan and China are polar opposites. The only similarity is ramen and rice. And even the ramen is so different.
He doesn't do the play dead thing. At all. And when I did shove stuff on his mouth he only spit it out. He doesn't like food and he is scared of me. I feel terrible. I feel cruel. I've never had an animal afraid of me like this before. Even my corn baby doesn't fear me. She doesnt especially like being touched But she is not afraid. I'll try changing substrate tomorrow.... Maybe that will help. And I've tried scenting with tuna Today. Didn't work.

 

[Shiari]

I would actually not use a pointy chopstick. You don't want to have it accidentally go through the mouse head and poke your baby in the throat.

 

[Nanci]

The snake isn't going to remember this part of its life forever. Just do what you have to do to keep it alive. You can regain its trust later. But- how much weight has he actually lost? And can you take a photo of him, with the pink by his head? A 24 gram snake should _easily_ swallow a pink, and hoggies have much wider mouths and heads than corns.

 

[Chip]

Like I said on the original thread on the matter, I can not stress enough, never try to force feed a hognose. Their little teeth break loose so easily, and then they have to heal before they will eat. Give it time now, his mouth is probably sore. Offer food no more than every 48 hours, and best to do in the evening, in my experience. Don't even think about tease feeding, or many of the tricks for corns that involve the pinkie moving. Put the food item in and leave it overnight. Good luck.

 

[Nanci]

Follow Chip's advice before mine!! He's the hognose expert. I'm just good at making snakes eat when they don't want to.

 

[Chip]

I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I've fooled with these for a few years now. I honestly think at this point the best route is leave him alone. It was his mouth bleeding, not the pinkie. He's not going to want food until his mouth feels better. Make 100% sure his cage is warm enough. Hoggies like it hot. Good luck.

 

[Spencer]

Chip , as a last resort I should just still not force feed? He is not eating regardless.... ao.

So at this point I think it's either death or force feeding. Ah it's so stressful.

 

[Nanci]

How long has it been?

 

[Spencer]

Bout 3 weeks now. With just a head. He's 3 months old

 

[Spencer]

Sorry 4 month now

 

[Nanci]

It's way too early to freak out. If my babies are blue, and I don't feed, and skip two meals, that's two weeks right there.

 

[Chip]

Chip , as a last resort I should just still not force feed? He is not eating regardless.... ao.

So at this point I think it's either death or force feeding. Ah it's so stressful.

At only 3 weeks off of food, I don't even worry yet! In 12 weeks, I'd start to panic a little. For a baby hog, force feeding often equals death. I've done it to a lot of them, before Deadmouse here told me what I was already learning -they usually won't eat on their own afterward. For right now, remember that your little guy has a busted up mouth and has been very stressed. He needs to heal and feel secure before eating is even going to be on his mind. Give it time. I wouldn't expect him to eat for the next 2 or 3 weeks now. He's likely dealing with loose or missing teeth or has abrasions in his mouth. These need to heal. Offer food every 5 days or so, and don't get discouraged. Whatever you do, don't force feed again. Best wishes.

 

[Spencer]

Oh okay. My corn was well started as almost a yearling when I got her. She never had a problem . I wouldn't worry with her if she went 10 weeks without. But she's a fatty she would never do that. You've put my mind at rest a little bit. So.I've already forcefed a head, hopefully that doesn't kill him or harm him much. Now the vet offered to give him a shot of nutrients. Should I do that at any point? Or is that just too much for him?

Ah wow. This forum is such a useful resource.

 

[Chip]

A shot of nutrients? No way. This snake is what, 25 grams? I wouldn't dare. Make sure he has water available at all times, and is staying hydrated. Hopefully you'll start seeing hunting behavior. Offer him something tiny for his first meal, I've had them "give up" on a larger item before and that's heartbreaking.