Chocolate cornsnake -"part two" NEW photo's

[MastersHaven]

For all of those who have been following the choc. corn thread...

I just took this guy outside and took new photo's of him...

They are not as good as some others post here at the forum but I do believe they are better than the ones I had posted in the other thread...

He does look a bit different outdoors so hope these help a bit...

what do you think now?

 

[mbdorfer]

Yeah, that's quite a difference. Now it looks more like a rootbeer to me :cheers:

 

[Joejr14]

Yeah, that makes it a little more clear.

Agree with Mike, that's a rootbeer.

 

[LukeH]

After seeing all of the pics I still believe this is a black rat cross. Either that or maybe a keys corn.....

Emoryi's are very heavy bodied, this snake is not overly heavy bodied. Emoryicorns are usually very brown, tan and grey. This snake seems to have a more speckled black look, darker reds, and yellows. Emoryicorns have a "cleaner" look. And I've never seen a emoryi, corn, cream or emoryicorn with sadles like a black rat....like this one has.

While anything is possible..... As you don't know the info, and you probably never will on this snakes ancestry. I'll take pics later tonight of my crosses. As I said before, Anything is possible...

I dont believe this snake has any emoryi in it.

LukeH

 

[MastersHaven]

:roflmao: sheeesh.... all that trouble over some crappy pic's...

I'm sorry for making you guys go through all of that the first time around... lol

SO what this means is that:

A) he is getting bred to my Emoryi female...
-- beings he seems to be rootbeer...
what would rootbeer X Emoryi babies be classified as?

Rootbeer?

few more question... if he is indeed rootbeer... what would babies look like if I were to breed him to my Amel female (she was produced by a creamsicle X snow breeding)?

Aren't creamsicle's an emoryi hybrid ?
would my amel be classified as a hybrid?

sorry for so many questions, It's just that I really dont want to "hybrid" alot of clutches from my other corns but if they are already hybrid and will produce nice hatchlings, then why not!

Thanks again guys!

 

[MastersHaven]

I guess at this point anything is a possibility but beings that he is only two years old might have something to do with him being thin bodied... He's not matured or filled out yet...

hopefully I will hear back from the folks I got him from soon and they will be able to tell me something...

Something else I hadn't thought of is... maybe if I put a post on the forum to see if anyone sold off a collection (or part of one) to someone in Va and when they were shipped.... I wonder if I would get any replies?

After seeing all of the pics I still believe this is a black rat cross. Either that or maybe a keys corn.....

Emoryi's are very heavy bodied, this snake is not overly heavy bodied. Emoryicorns are usually very brown, tan and grey. This snake seems to have a more speckled black look, darker reds, and yellows. Emoryicorns have a "cleaner" look. And I've never seen a emoryi, corn, cream or emoryicorn with sadles like a black rat....like this one has.

While anything is possible..... As you don't know the info, and you probably never will on this snakes ancestry. I'll take pics later tonight of my crosses. As I said before, Anything is possible...

I dont believe this snake has any emoryi in it.

LukeH

please do.....

Thanks again!

 

[CrazyCorn]

What did I say all along? Oh yeah, its a mixed Corn. I could not see it being anything but a mix from the previous photos. It does look more like a Black Rat x Corn now that the photos are better, and seeing as Ben s. was labeling that mix 'Chocolate' Corns I would put my money it be that.

 

[Hurley]

few more question... if he is indeed rootbeer... what would babies look like if I were to breed him to my Amel female (she was produced by a creamsicle X snow breeding)?

Aren't creamsicle's an emoryi hybrid ?
would my amel be classified as a hybrid?

If your "amel female" was from a creamsicle (amel version of corn x emory, regardless of %corn vs %emory), then she is a creamsicle. The more corn blood they get in them, the more red these intergrades look, the more emory blood they get in them, the more yellow these intergrades look. That's why the ones closer to 50%/50% look "creamsicle" in coloration.

The term creamsicle denotes it is two things: 1 - Amelanistic, and B - descended from both corns and emorys.

A rootbeer denotes two things: 1 - Wild type coloration, and B - descended from both corns and emorys.



As for what the babies would look like, I'm the last person to ask as my personal experience with hybrids and intergrades is limited at best. However, IF that snake is het amel and IF it's an emory/corn, then I'd bet any amel progeny would be more "creamsicley" in coloration than the creamsicle female you have, who looks like an amel. Also IF it's emory/corn, I'd expect the normal babies to look like rootbeers, with less reds, more brown tones. If that snake is a black rat/corn, then I couldn't tell you what the progeny will look like, but I'd bet any normals will be brownish and may very well get some exaggerated yellow like that snake has along its chin. That's my guess, at any rate.

 

[Clint Boyer]

Sometimes names get tagged on a snake just because it looks a bit different and the seller thinks it sounds good.

Here's another one that could easily get tagged as a "Chocolate"

 

[abell82]

I have two questions.
1. Why does it have a darker head?
2. Why would you think that snake has Emory rat ancestry?
It has been my experience that the Emory rat influence actually helps clean up the background colors. Not muddy them like this snake. I would say it is probably a cross but I would guess black rat or Grey Rat not Emory. But that head, now that has me going! Everglades rat?

 

[MastersHaven]

Sometimes names get tagged on a snake just because it looks a bit different and the seller thinks it sounds good.

Here's another one that could easily get tagged as a "Chocolate"

YES!!!! now that picture looks like what I would classify as a chocolate
(from looking at it) ... more so than my snake...

If I had seen that snake and someone would have told me "chocolate" I wouldn't have questioned it... but sense it's here and you said "could easily get tagged as a Chocolate" I am assuming that it's not ....
what is it?

 

[MastersHaven]

as far as question #1... I have no clue... that's why I wanted everyone's input on the snake (i didnt think it looked quite right)

and for question #2... The reason that I thought it was an emoryi cross was one because of what it was sold as "chocolate corn" ??? -- chocolate emoryi??? only chocolate i had ever heard of...

AND when comparing him to my Emoryi female (which I KNOW is pure emoryi) the blotching color and shape and just the over all apearance are very simular (except for the head) the females head is broader and more brown and his is slimmer and gray! I attributed the slimness to him being ALOT younger and the head color... well I just dont know... her base color does however look a bit more clean not speckled with the white freckles so much as his...

from my experience (which is limited) the rat snake species seems to be a larger snake... larger than most emoryi and corns I have seen.... even the hatchlings are larger...

I think emoryis are larger built with fatter bodies but not all the around bigness of a rat snake... and this snake is just not built big... not big enough to make me think rat snake...

:shrugs: I dont know... maybe I will never know

I have two questions.
1. Why does it have a darker head?
2. Why would you think that snake has Emory rat ancestry?
It has been my experience that the Emory rat influence actually helps clean up the background colors. Not muddy them like this snake. I would say it is probably a cross but I would guess black rat or Grey Rat not Emory. But that head, now that has me going! Everglades rat?

anything is a possibility...

Thanks!

 

[Clint Boyer]

If I had seen that snake and someone would have told me "chocolate" I wouldn't have questioned it... but sense it's here and you said "could easily get tagged as a Chocolate" I am assuming that it's not ....

I've got no clue as to what a Chocolate might be. Mine is a Milksnake phase from rich Z. Pure corn.