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cohabbing with a mouse.

hetfeildfan

hetfeildfan

New member
3 year old female of average size. she has been eating on a very regular schedule of every 7 days for over a year with no problems. She is getting bigger, and the pet store did not have the adult mouse she'd been feeding on. I picked up a small rat and it was a bit to big. she got to the front legs and spit it out. 4 weeks later she has not eaten. I am not worried too much about a female going a month without a meal, but I wonder if it has anything to do with the last feeding gone bad. After 4 refusals I bought a live mouse, one much smaller than she is use to. They have been sharing the viv for 3 days now. Snake appears to be hunting but will let the mouse hang out right in front of her. Am I making a bad situation worse? In the interest of keeping a healthy snake that eats as neccesary should I remove mouse?
Please, I understand the arguement for live vs. f/t. I am f/t and making an exception so I would rather not hear about how unsafe my snake is and do not want to exel the live f/t arguement here.
 
You already know how bad this is, why are you doing it?
Does the mouse have food and water?
If not.....well I am not going to say it.

I feel really bad for both the snake and the mouse.
 
Well, if the snake has water I guess the mouse does also??

I don't quite understand why people won't just try to be helpful ...

I'm not an expert, but I imagine the bad feed did upset the snake.

I haven't tried live feeding, but I don't think it is a good idea to leave the mouse in there ... if the snake hasn't eaten it by now it possibly isn't quite helping.

Hopefully some people with more experience will drop by with suggestions how to get your snake feeding again ...
 
I don't see the need to feed live to an established f/t eater. I would take the mouse out and let her go another week and try again with a smaller meal then next time. If it was just a large mouse that has made her hesitant to eat then I would think a live fluffy one might be intimidating as well.
 
Iulia said:
Well, if the snake has water I guess the mouse does also??

I don't quite understand why people won't just try to be helpful ...

I'm not an expert, but I imagine the bad feed did upset the snake.

I haven't tried live feeding, but I don't think it is a good idea to leave the mouse in there ... if the snake hasn't eaten it by now it possibly isn't quite helping.

Hopefully some people with more experience will drop by with suggestions how to get your snake feeding again ...
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Because mice have extremely high metabolisms. They need to eat often. Denying it food and water (many won't drink out of bowls, they need waterbottles), is not only cruel, but makes that mouse much more dangerous to the snake.

Not to mention denying an animal its basic needs for 3 whole days is beyond horrific.
 
Or maybe they're plotting against you-this book came to mind.




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--Donna
 
IMO, the presence of the mouse is very likely just stressing the snake further... On top of that, hungry rodents will eat just about anything, including an uninterested snake. Look up some of the horror stories about ball pythons being chewed on by prey items left in the cage for a day or so--I recall a couple that chewed all the way down to the spine. That's really all the reason you need to not cohab rodents and snakes!

I don't think anyone here meant to upset you... Some of us can come off as abrasive, but we only have the safety of the animals in mind. You should most definitely separate them. A healthy corn snake won't starve itself. Just keep trying, once a week or so, with her normal meal size. A healthy adult snake can go several months without eating. Certainly, a month of refusal is NOT grounds for doing something this drastic. ;)

Best of luck!
 
Sorry in advance for the caps lock, but I feel the need to.

LEAVING A LIVE MOUSE WITH YOUR SNAKE FOR ANY PERIOD OF TIME, UNATTENDED CAN LEAD TO DISASTROUS CONSEQUENCES FOR THE SNAKE!!

Even if you have food and water for the mouse, and this is from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (not that it matters, you can just google pics of what happens if you leave mice unattended) they WILL EAT YOUR SNAKE ALIVE.

If the store didn't have the size mouse you needed, I don't know what on earth prompted you to try feeding something so much larger. Going a week without food is a much better option than that, and definitely a much better option than leaving a mouse in the cage! I really hope you made this thread as some sort of joke.
 
AliCat37 said:
Sorry in advance for the caps lock, but I feel the need to.

LEAVING A LIVE MOUSE WITH YOUR SNAKE FOR ANY PERIOD OF TIME, UNATTENDED CAN LEAD TO DISASTROUS CONSEQUENCES FOR THE SNAKE!!

Even if you have food and water for the mouse, and this is from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (not that it matters, you can just google pics of what happens if you leave mice unattended) they WILL EAT YOUR SNAKE ALIVE.

If the store didn't have the size mouse you needed, I don't know what on earth prompted you to try feeding something so much larger. Going a week without food is a much better option than that, and definitely a much better option than leaving a mouse in the cage! I really hope you made this thread as some sort of joke.
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Thank you!! I was trying SO FREAKIN' HARD not to be harsh, as my opinion of live feeding is quite well known around here and my nastiness towards those who do it has gotten me in trouble quite a bit in the 7 years I have been a member of this site.
Thank you for saying what I wanted to say, and saying it much nicer than I would have.
 
points taken thank you. problem solved. I will offer frozen thaw in a week or so.
BTW the mouse is well fed and watered.
 
I under no circumstances would ever put a live mouse in with my snakes especially one that's not being fed. I stand behind Starsevol on this its out rite cruel to deny the mouse food and proper water. I'm not totally apposed to live feeding, I do see where sometimes under extreme circumstances is required. Only after every possible option has be exhausted. I wouldn't offer it even then unless it was stunned. I'm not sure I would be able to thump the poor little thing to stun it tho. Live or live stunned feeding is not for me. I would rather Tube feed them. A simple thing to do would have been to cut the rat in half to make it easier to eat. If folks cant handle that then wait till the rite size is avaliable or feed several smaller. This is exactly why I feed by weight. That said I would like to say I think maybe she is just apprehensive about eating after her last exp. I have had the spit out a mouse because they grabbed it by the side but they pick it back up correctly and continue. I would try to offer her a smaller then normal meal brain it leave it overnight what ever it takes.
 
hetfeildfan said:
Please, I understand the arguement for live vs. f/t. I am f/t and making an exception so I would rather not hear about how unsafe my snake is and do not want to exel the live f/t arguement here.
Click to expand...

If you already know this, then why are you doing the exact opposite? :shrugs:
 
starsevol said:
Because mice have extremely high metabolisms. They need to eat often. Denying it food and water (many won't drink out of bowls, they need waterbottles), is not only cruel, but makes that mouse much more dangerous to the snake.

Not to mention denying an animal its basic needs for 3 whole days is beyond horrific.
Click to expand...

I just bought a snake that was left with a life mouse for a month with no water. working on healing 2 nasty bite marks. probably more like naw marks. I'm on your side it should never happen or be considered. My snake hasn't ate in a month, but I am suspecting her old owners didn't take care of her so now I have to get her healthy and comftorable to eat again.


anyways good luck I just hope you don't try to feed live again.
 
Again, the mouse had plenty of food and water! I am in no way being cruel to any animal. I have heard advise from vets, pet store owners, as well as people on this site. If you have a non feeder try live. My question was will this cause extra stress or turn in to a long term problem. I have removed the mouse and things are normal other than snake has not eaten yet. the season has just changed and a month without a meal is not a big deal so I am not really worried anymore. to the people that have given good advise and answered my question, Thank you.

BTW just because you read a post doesnt mean you have to comment on it. some thoughts should be left in your head. Again I was not denying the mouse food. I made that clear early on. I think this thread could probably be closed. Furthermore a snake eating a live mouse is natural, the way it is intended and by no means cruel.
 
hetfeildfan said:
Again, the mouse had plenty of food and water! I am in no way being cruel to any animal. I have heard advise from vets, pet store owners, as well as people on this site. If you have a non feeder try live. My question was will this cause extra stress or turn in to a long term problem. I have removed the mouse and things are normal other than snake has not eaten yet. the season has just changed and a month without a meal is not a big deal so I am not really worried anymore. to the people that have given good advise and answered my question, Thank you.

BTW just because you read a post doesnt mean you have to comment on it. some thoughts should be left in your head. Again I was not denying the mouse food. I made that clear early on. I think this thread could probably be closed. Furthermore a snake eating a live mouse is natural, the way it is intended and by no means cruel.
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1) I got that the mouse had food and water after you said it the first time.
2) Some vets and most pet store owners know NOTHING about properly keeping snakes.
3) As stated before, leaving the mouse in with the snake is a horrible idea and will stress out the snake. BADLY.
4) This is an open forum, and we can darn well comment on anything we want to. Unless Rich or the mods have any problem with it of course.
5) Threads are not closed here.
6) A dog dying of distemper is natural. So is a cat dying of rabies. So is a snake being eaten by a hawk. So is an injured lion wasting away slowly because she can't hunt. "Natural" means a death that is either painful and violent, or a slow death by starvation and disease. Most people do not want that for their pets. And when you have a snake that eats f/t with no problem and you toss a live mouse at him, most of us would consider that cruel. I know I do.
 
I guess you didn't catch the part where I mentioned that I had left a mouse in with a snake with food and water over night and came back to a half dead and eaten snake in the morning?

Glad they are separated now. If the snake doesn't eat within the first 5-10 mins of a live mouse.. it probably won't eat. The only time it is safe to leave a mouse in longer is if it is a fuzzy or smaller, so it has no teeth.
 
I have some ball pythons that rarely, if ever, eat f/t. I generally put a live rat or mouse in with them for about a half hour, with a food pellet. I check on them at least every 15 minutes or so. If they haven't eaten within a half hour (and certainly within an hour), it is highly unlikely that they will eat, especially if they are an established feeder and not sick, shedding, etc. I have found that leaving a live rodent in with a snake that obviously isn't interested (means those that haven't eaten within the hour) usually causes the snake to get stressed and makes it less likely to eat in the near future. I rarely, if ever, offer food more often than every 5 days or so. More often just seems to cause stress and makes it less likely that the snake will feed on the next offering.

I have occasionally had a snake refuse a meal because it seemed too big, especially if it was shedding. And I have had that same snake refuse the next meal or two. What seemed to work the best was a fast for a couple of weeks until it was good and hungry, and seemed to forget the stress and / or discomfort of its last unsuccessful meal - at least that is the way I interpret my results. After a couple of weeks fast, a corn that is used to f/t is probably just as likely (or unlikely, depending on the snake and how it feels at the time) to eat a smaller f/t rodent as a live one. I would wait for a few more f/t ONCE PER WEEK offerings before resorting to live, since it is a corn (not a bp) and is used to f/t.
 
hetfeildfan said:
Again, the mouse had plenty of food and water! I am in no way being cruel to any animal. I have heard advise from vets, pet store owners, as well as people on this site. If you have a non feeder try live. My question was will this cause extra stress or turn in to a long term problem. I have removed the mouse and things are normal other than snake has not eaten yet. the season has just changed and a month without a meal is not a big deal so I am not really worried anymore. to the people that have given good advise and answered my question, Thank you.

BTW just because you read a post doesnt mean you have to comment on it. some thoughts should be left in your head. Again I was not denying the mouse food. I made that clear early on. I think this thread could probably be closed. Furthermore a snake eating a live mouse is natural, the way it is intended and by no means cruel.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't consider your snake a non-feeder. It has eaten f/t thawed before she will go back. Nothing to worry about. Most the time it is recommended to feed live for a non-feeder is when they are babies and eating pinky's. There are some snakes that seem to never transfer over to f/t but again since your snake did eat f/t for most it's life I think the best thing to do is wait another week and offer again. If she doesn't eat then, then wait another week. If she still isn't eating in the next few weeks then we can recommend other methods but I really don't think that will be the case.

And I apologize his forum does not close threads but take everything everyone says with a grain of salt. Some are very passionate about this subject and I completely respect them for that because they care. As Beth already stated she is passionate and knows it but she hates to see any animal suffer and will speak up. So just take the chance to learn from their words and don't take it personal. If you do that then they will become some of your good friends.
 
Furthermore a snake eating a live mouse is natural, the way it is intended and by no means cruel.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to point out - yes, technically it is the natural order of things, but there is nothing natural about sticking a prey animal in a small, enclosed area with a predator where either animal can't get away.

Just my two cents.
 
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