Color morphs?

[amanda007]

I'm curious about how so many different colors of corn snakes there are out there. Is it all carefully planned out? Or is it a bit "Well I wonder what happens if I take this and this..."?

Is there such thing as two colors that will produce...well, "ugly" hatchlings?

 

[Emily1188]

I'm curious about how so many different colors of corn snakes there are out there. Is it all carefully planned out? Or is it a bit "Well I wonder what happens if I take this and this..."?

A little bit of both. Most of the time, people breed knowing the genetics and knowing what they're trying to produce, but sometimes, you may have new color combos, and it's a bit of a guess work

Is there such thing as two colors that will produce...well, "ugly" hatchlings?

Ugly is all in the eye of the beholder. Me, personally, I don't like amels. At ALL. And I generally don't care for red eyes, not because I think they're "creepy" (like some people), I just don't like it visually.

 

[Tavia]

Ugly is all in the eye of the beholder. Me, personally, I don't like amels. At ALL. And I generally don't care for red eyes, not because I think they're "creepy" (like some people), I just don't like it visually.

I'd have have agree with that. I don't like red eyes & personally think snows, blizzard's & the like are ugly, but other people really like them, so I think you'd have to say that there are no ugly snakes, as somewhere there is someone that will think they are awesome!

 

[Emily1188]

there are no ugly snakes, as somewhere there is someone that will think they are awesome!

Exactly!

 

[Stars]

Yes, genetics is not something everyone will understand right away - it is planned out. If you were to breed a bunch of random morphs together you would probably get all Normal looking corns (with hidden genes - hets).

 

[Emily1188]

Yes, genetics is not something everyone will understand right away - it is planned out.

Well, yes and no. Sometimes people have snakes that are potentially homozygous for 4 or 5 different genes, in which case often times people do not know what they are trying to get and are playing a guessing game as to what the offsprings' actual genetic makeup is, until it can be determined through breeding tests.

 

[Stars]

Well, yes and no. Sometimes people have snakes that are potentially homozygous for 4 or 5 different genes, in which case often times people do not know what they are trying to get and are playing a guessing game as to what the offsprings' actual genetic makeup is, until it can be determined through breeding tests.

Obviously. So test breeding isn't planned? To be a (successful) breeder you make plans of some sort. I believe the OP doesn't have an understanding of genetics.

 

[Emily1188]

Obviously. So test breeding isn't planned? To be a (successful) breeder you make plans of some sort.

What's "obvious"?

To me, it's "obvious" that if a certain combination of genes has never been produced before, then while the breeding might be "planned", it is, as the OP asked, "a bit 'Well I wonder what happens if I take this and this...?" as the breeder has no idea what these combinations will look like and may not even be able to identify new genetic combinations if they do arise. There is still an element of guesswork in many breedings. Simply making "plans of some sort" does not eliminate that.

I believe the OP doesn't have an understanding of genetics.

Probably not. Why does this matter?

 

[wstphal]

Even if the OP doesn't know much about genetics, how is someone supposed to find out except by asking questions? I freely admit I don't know much about snake genetics, but I learned about mouse color genetics by asking, and about cat coat genetics by asking, so isn't it a place to start? And someone back at the beginning was looking at a spontaneous occurence & saying to themselves "How did I get this bright <insert color> corn?!" I would assume they did test breedings to figure out how they got, say, a bright orange hatchling from 2 normals, but originally they had no idea how they got bright orange.

 

[amanda007]

No, I do not know anything about snake genetics. But I remember enough from my various biology courses to get the gist of it. I was just curious about how much was guess work vs. meticulous planning.

...how is someone supposed to find out except by asking questions?

This was my idea exactly. I've had my corn for about 4 days now. I don't know much, and would like to learn as MUCH as I can in the next 2 years, in case I do decide to breed him. (Obviously I'll need a female too, which shouldn't be too hard. My previously snake-shy hubby is now crazy for bloodred and blizzard corn snakes! :laugh

 

[Susan]

There are about 17 - 18 known corn snake genes that affect either the color or pattern. Some of these genes completely mask the affect of others, some are difficult to see in certain combinations but not in others, some look completely different in certain combinations than in others, and many combinations haven't even been created yet so no one knows what it looks like.

Most breeders have plans of what specific combinations they would eventually like to produce. The difficult part is actually recognizing what each combination is, or at least proving what the exact genetics are. The instances outlined above, as well as the normal variance in phenotype that can be expressed by a single gene alone, makes the identification of combination morphs anything but an exact science. Plus, you can never tell if an as-yet-unidentified gene, whether a hidden het of a known gene or a completely new and unknown gene) is making things even more difficult.

 

[melopez2]

This fourm is a place to learn more about corns right!!!! Thats why we are all here isnt it so ask away op.

 

[The_Thunderer]

Amanda... Check out this site... it give you an idea as to some of the genes involved and lets you "plug in" your het/homo genes and then get the results. If you follow some of the links, it'll take you to some great pics of what the "end results" might look like.

Hope this is helpful! I LOVE it... it is very useful to me (also a beginner).

CornCalculator

 

[Emily1188]

There are about 17 - 18 known corn snake genes that affect either the color or pattern. Some of these genes completely mask the affect of others, some are difficult to see in certain combinations but not in others, some look completely different in certain combinations than in others, and many combinations haven't even been created yet so no one knows what it looks like.

Most breeders have plans of what specific combinations they would eventually like to produce. The difficult part is actually recognizing what each combination is, or at least proving what the exact genetics are. The instances outlined above, as well as the normal variance in phenotype that can be expressed by a single gene alone, makes the identification of combination morphs anything but an exact science. Plus, you can never tell if an as-yet-unidentified gene, whether a hidden het of a known gene or a completely new and unknown gene) is making things even more difficult.

That's exactly what I was trying to say, but you expressed it much better!

 

[amanda007]

I actually just noticed Susan's extremely detailed sticky about genetics, and am reading it a bit at a time. It's been a while since I've had to do any intensive thinking!

 

[amanda007]

Amanda... Check out this site... it give you an idea as to some of the genes involved and lets you "plug in" your het/homo genes and then get the results. If you follow some of the links, it'll take you to some great pics of what the "end results" might look like.

Hope this is helpful! I LOVE it... it is very useful to me (also a beginner).

CornCalculator

This site is fabulous! I can read and reread about how this works, but playing with that chart made me understand everything much better. Thanks!