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Corn or no?

M

mww70

New member
I posted in another thread about the differences between Corns and rat snakes here was my question:

Ok. I get the point that corn snakes are rat snakes. Read somewhere that all corn snakes are rat snakes but not all rat snakes are corns. I get this and understand (kinda) the whole classifications thing. However, what i can't seem to find an answer to here or anywhere else I've lookedis; if corns are different from other ratsnakes, what is the physical difference and how do you tell? Kudos to anyone who answers.

I'm asking because I found a snake crawling across the floor at work yesterday and have given it a good home. I've had corns before and this looks exactly like my others just a dakrer coloration, leading me to believe it may be a rat snake. Here are some pics, you guys can tell me what you think.

Thanks!



airenlow suggested a new thread so here we are. to answer his questions from the other thread:

If it looks exactly like your corns except slightly darker then why would you assume it wasn't a corn?

Because I dont currently have another corn to campare it to so I'm going by memory, also I'm finding that there are very few differences between the appearance of a corn and a rat so it's a little difficult.

WC corns tend to be darker than CB anyways. Where do you live? Corns are native all over the south and east

I live in the Dallas, Texaas area.


Here are some pics:
 

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I don't pretent to know a ton about the difference between cornsnakes and ratsnakes... but there's just something about this one's head that screams "not a corn"... I can't place it, and I may be wrong... but it just doesn't seem right. Plus it's a coloration I've personally never seen before. The markings (save for the head) are very much cornsnake though (the saddles and the checkerboard on the belly).
 
Looks like a rat snake to me too--they largely have bigger heads as juvies--that is what I see there. They do change in appearence as they mature!
 
That's what I was thinking also. I noticed that it seemed to have a little bigger head, wider around the jaw area. the markings, while looking like a corn seem too dark, no real coloration at all, in good light the saddles do seem to have a little red in them though.

Plus this little guy seems to have the temperment that I've been reading about in the rat snake info. they seem to be a little more snippy and agressive. Which is not a problem.
 
Black Rat Snake group

It's an Elaphe obsoleta something. Either obsoleta, lindheimeri, or spiloides.

Or should I say, Pantherophis, instead of Elaphe. I've studied the group from Monroe and Winn, LaSalle, & Grant parishes westward to Shreveport and Leesville, and to the Texas border. My guess, taking regional and geographic colorations into consideration, likely a Texas Rat Snake. As it would appear projected so many longitudes westward to Dallas.
What color is the skin between the scales? Any reds or oranges?
 
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It's either a Baird's ratsnake or a Texas ratsnake. As vetusvates asked, is there any orange coloration between the scales? Is there any yellow coloration on the ventral scutes? If so, it would be a Baird's rat. If not, I would guess Texas Rat.

the pattern overall leads me to believe it is a Texas ratsnake...

As far as differences...the classifications are based on physical differences, typically...scale rows, subcaudal scales, supraocular scale, labial scales, subocular scales, etc. It can also be based on habitat requirements, nutritional predispositions, color and pattern, and a myriad of other generalized differences that seperate either by subspecies or distinct species.

The reason all cornsnakes are ratsnakes, but not all ratsnakes are corns is because the Genus, Pantherophis is that of the North American Ratsnake. Anything falling in that genus is a ratsnake. Corns are Pantherophis guttata, which makes them technically a ratsnake. But specifically, they are a cornsnake.
 
Check your field guide

SnakeKeeper4Life said:
No, it can't be obsoleta, obsoleta is the florida species of rat.
Click to expand...
The Elaphe/Panterophis obsoleta obsoleta "type species" ('type species' being used in the formal scientific sense) range extends far west of the Mississippi River.
Subspecies P. o. spiloides and P. o. lindheimeri exist primarily in western Louisiana northward and westward, respectively.
 
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