Creamsicle/Okeetee?

[LouisianaLure]

I'm in the beginning stages of planning a clutch that is FAR off. I'm a newb, so don't be too harsh with my questions. I'm really just starting to gather my info on what to do, how to do it, and what to expect.

That being said...


For those of you who havn't seen me around yet (remember newb), I currently have a creamsicle Male I bought from Petco. He's doing well, i'm guessing he's from an '09 clutch.

I've been looking around for an Okeetee female, preferably Love/Abbott line with a the Zigzag patern in the saddles.

IF (big if) I were to breed these two lines, what kind of clutch could I expect? If I understand correctly, I know there are alot of variables involved, but i'd still like to see what some of the more experienced would say.

Any advice/wisdom/knowledge is well appreciated, and I thank you in advance!



Steve-O

 

[ZoologyGirl]

I'm in the beginning stages of planning a clutch that is FAR off. I'm a newb, so don't be too harsh with my questions. I'm really just starting to gather my info on what to do, how to do it, and what to expect.

That being said...


For those of you who havn't seen me around yet (remember newb), I currently have a creamsicle Male I bought from Petco. He's doing well, i'm guessing he's from an '09 clutch.

I've been looking around for an Okeetee female, preferably Love/Abbott line with a the Zigzag patern in the saddles.

IF (big if) I were to breed these two lines, what kind of clutch could I expect? If I understand correctly, I know there are alot of variables involved, but i'd still like to see what some of the more experienced would say.

Any advice/wisdom/knowledge is well appreciated, and I thank you in advance!



Steve-O

It's kind of a difficult question, because those 2 morphs aren't exactly genetically recessively inherited morphs.

The creamsicle is an amel hybrid of cornsnake x emoryi. I believe they call the non-amel hybrid of cornsnake x emoryi a "rootbeer"

An okeetee when referring to a type/look (not locality) is for all intents and purposes a normal. They are selectively bred to create the thick black borders. In most cases if you want good looking okeetee offspring, then 2 okeetee parents should be used. You may or may not get okay results using just one okeetee parent, but I wouldn't expect anything fantastic.

So a creamsicle x okeetee will essentially create what I described as "rootbeer" snakes up above. They will be normal colored versions of a cornsnake x emoryi hybrid. If the creamsicle you have now is 50% corn, 50% emoryi, then the rootbeers would be 75% corn, 25% emoryi.

 

[LouisianaLure]

It's kind of a difficult question, because those 2 morphs aren't exactly genetically recessively inherited morphs.

The creamsicle is an amel hybrid of cornsnake x emoryi. I believe they call the non-amel hybrid of cornsnake x emoryi a "rootbeer"

An okeetee when referring to a type/look (not locality) is for all intents and purposes a normal. They are selectively bred to create the thick black borders. In most cases if you want good looking okeetee offspring, then 2 okeetee parents should be used. You may or may not get okay results using just one okeetee parent, but I wouldn't expect anything fantastic.

So a creamsicle x okeetee will essentially create what I described as "rootbeer" snakes up above. They will be normal colored versions of a cornsnake x emoryi hybrid. If the creamsicle you have now is 50% corn, 50% emoryi, then the rootbeers would be 75% corn, 25% emoryi.

I kinda figured it wouldn't be anything amazing, but thanks for the knowledge.. the search continues.

 

[ZoologyGirl]

A thing to keep in mind when considering breeding:

Most cornsnake traits work by rules of simple recessively-inherited Mendelian genetics.

So a good rule of thumb is if you want a certain trait to show up in the offspring of your pairing, then both the mother and father need to have at least one recessive copy of that trait. This means the parent can either be homozygous recessive (i.e. already showing the trait), or it has to be heterozygous for the trait (i.e. not showing the trait...but has one recessive allele for that trait).

Amel allele example

AA Wildtype (normal colorataion)
Aa Heterozygous for amel (normal coloration)
aa Homozygous recessive for amel (amel coloration)

So if you wanted some amel offspring, you would need both parents to either be Aa or aa. One can be aa and the other Aa, or they both can be the same. As long as there is one recessive allele.

Same with most other traits. If you want anery, both need to have a recessive anery allele. Lavender...both need to have a recessive lavender allele. Etc..etc..

 

[LouisianaLure]

A thing to keep in mind when considering breeding:

Most cornsnake traits work by rules of simple recessively-inherited Mendelian genetics.

So a good rule of thumb is if you want a certain trait to show up in the offspring of your pairing, then both the mother and father need to have at least one recessive copy of that trait. This means the parent can either be homozygous recessive (i.e. already showing the trait), or it has to be heterozygous for the trait (i.e. not showing the trait...but has one recessive allele for that trait).

Amel allele example

AA Wildtype (normal colorataion)
Aa Heterozygous for amel (normal coloration)
aa Homozygous recessive for amel (amel coloration)

So if you wanted some amel offspring, you would need both parents to either be Aa or aa. One can be aa and the other Aa, or they both can be the same. As long as there is one recessive allele.

Same with most other traits. If you want anery, both need to have a recessive anery allele. Lavender...both need to have a recessive lavender allele. Etc..etc..

Ok.. tell me this then.. I know a local breeder who is advertising a clutch of "Triple Het for Hypo/Lavender/Candy Cane Corn". If I were to buy one of those, would that be a good mix? Isn't candy cane an amel/something else mix? I might be going down the wrong path, here. I'm just curious more than anything.

 

[ZoologyGirl]

Ok.. tell me this then.. I know a local breeder who is advertising a clutch of "Triple Het for Hypo/Lavender/Candy Cane Corn". If I were to buy one of those, would that be a good mix? Isn't candy cane an amel/something else mix? I might be going down the wrong path, here. I'm just curious more than anything.

So are you looking at picking up a pair of the triple hets?

yeah, as far as the "het candy cane" goes...I would just consider that "het amel". Candy canes are selectively bred amels to create the white/red (sometimes white/orange) pattern. I don't think a snake should necessarily be labeled as het for a selectively bred trait...though I don't mind if they say "from candy cane lines". It's possible they could produce some candy canes, but I wouldn't bank on it.

Het hypo lavender amel x Het hypo lavender amel has the possibility to create:

normals, hypos, lavenders, amels, hypo lavenders, hypo amels, opals (lavender amels), and hypo opals.

 

[Camby]

I kinda figured it wouldn't be anything amazing, but thanks for the knowledge.. the search continues.

A creamsicle okeeteecan be amazing. Don at SOuth Mountain has an amazing looking line, very cool looking snakes. See the linked pic for an example

So are you looking at picking up a pair of the triple hets?

yeah, as far as the "het candy cane" goes...I would just consider that "het amel". Candy canes are selectively bred amels to create the white/red (sometimes white/orange) pattern. I don't think a snake should necessarily be labeled as het for a selectively bred trait...though I don't mind if they say "from candy cane lines". It's possible they could produce some candy canes, but I wouldn't bank on it.

Het hypo lavender amel x Het hypo lavender amel has the possibility to create:

normals, hypos, lavenders, amels, hypo lavenders, hypo amels, opals (lavender amels), and hypo opals.

Regarding Candy Canes, I wouldn't suggest using this in the project because if you are wanting a creamsicle okeetee, then you are likely breeding from wide white borders like in the standard reverse okeetees. Well, candy canes are selectively bred not to have white borders. They are "white & Red" or "white and orange" snakes but the really good ones have no borders.

If you are starting from scratch with the creamsicle, then I suggest you begin with a good reverse okeetee, maybe a high white reverse okeetee.

dc

 

[Camby]

Correction

I said this Regarding Candy Canes, I wouldn't suggest using this in the project because if you are wanting a creamsicle okeetee, then you are likely breeding from wide white borders

I should have said FOR wide borders, not from wide borders.

dc

 

[CrousesCorns]

Here is my adult creamsicle male.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=102687&d=1238686034
Here is his offspring daughter.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=102690&d=1238686034

I didn't breed these, but I am going to this year and get hopefully some "creamsicle okeetees".
Hope this helps you visually.

 

[LouisianaLure]

Here is my adult creamsicle male.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=102687&d=1238686034
Here is his offspring daughter.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=102690&d=1238686034

I didn't breed these, but I am going to this year and get hopefully some "creamsicle okeetees".
Hope this helps you visually.

awesome lookin corns you have there!

all in all I like the idea of having some creamsicle okeetees. That would be a clutch i'd have a hard time gettin rid of.

Thanks to everyone for their input and knowledge!!

 

[LouisianaLure]

A creamsicle okeeteecan be amazing. Don at SOuth Mountain has an amazing looking line, very cool looking snakes. See the linked pic for an example




Regarding Candy Canes, I wouldn't suggest using this in the project because if you are wanting a creamsicle okeetee, then you are likely breeding from wide white borders like in the standard reverse okeetees. Well, candy canes are selectively bred not to have white borders. They are "white & Red" or "white and orange" snakes but the really good ones have no borders.

If you are starting from scratch with the creamsicle, then I suggest you begin with a good reverse okeetee, maybe a high white reverse okeetee.

dc

This is absolutely amazing, in my opinion. If I could turn out a clutch even similar to this, I would have a field day.

 

[hezikiawilson]

Check out the website http://corncalc.com/ It's very helpful.