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Creamsicles pleeeez
- Thread starter Seawin
- Start date
Edmund
Unregistered User
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8309
Here's a thread I started a while back. Some good looking creams in there.
Here's a thread I started a while back. Some good looking creams in there.
vanderkm
New member
Our big male with his butter female and a great plains ratsnake female this spring
youngster
adult
some rootbeer babies pre-shed with a 1 month old creamsicle for size comparison - the rootbeers were from the great plains ratsnake female - huge babies!
rootbeer at a month old starting to show brown tones -
mary v.
youngster
adult
some rootbeer babies pre-shed with a 1 month old creamsicle for size comparison - the rootbeers were from the great plains ratsnake female - huge babies!
rootbeer at a month old starting to show brown tones -
mary v.
Walter Smith
CRAZY BOUT' CORNS !!
Walter Smith
CRAZY BOUT' CORNS !!
Walter Smith
CRAZY BOUT' CORNS !!
Joe,
I actually bought mine from another breeder.
However, there are a few ways you could go to produce them and I'm sure there will be a varience in coloration depending on the route you take.
Here's just a few ways that I can think of to produce them:
Amel. Striped Corn X Emory
Amel. Emory X Striped Corn
Creamsicle X Striped Corn
Amel. Striped Corn X Creamsicle
Amel. Emory X Amel. Striped Corn
I know this isn't rocket science here and anyone could figure out how to produce Creamsicle Stripes, but like I said, I would think that each way would yield a difference in coloration.
For instance, there are two different colorations in Creamsicles.
There is "ORANGE" and "YELLOW" phases.
IMO, I would think the "ORANGE" phase is produced from the breeding of:
( Amel. Corn X Normal Emory )
and, I would think the "YELLOW" phase is produced from the breeding of:
( Amel. Emory X Amel. Corn )
I'm just about possitive on the "ORANGE" phase, but not sure on how the "YELLOW" phase came about. This is just my thoughts on it, seeing how much yellow is displayed in the Amel. Emory.
I know Don has quite a bit of knowledge on the Emory lines seeing how he was the one who introduced the Amel. Emory into the hobby. Maybe he could be a great help on this subject.
How about it Don, you out there?
Walter :wavey:
I actually bought mine from another breeder.
However, there are a few ways you could go to produce them and I'm sure there will be a varience in coloration depending on the route you take.
Here's just a few ways that I can think of to produce them:
Amel. Striped Corn X Emory
Amel. Emory X Striped Corn
Creamsicle X Striped Corn
Amel. Striped Corn X Creamsicle
Amel. Emory X Amel. Striped Corn
I know this isn't rocket science here and anyone could figure out how to produce Creamsicle Stripes, but like I said, I would think that each way would yield a difference in coloration.
For instance, there are two different colorations in Creamsicles.
There is "ORANGE" and "YELLOW" phases.
IMO, I would think the "ORANGE" phase is produced from the breeding of:
( Amel. Corn X Normal Emory )
and, I would think the "YELLOW" phase is produced from the breeding of:
( Amel. Emory X Amel. Corn )
I'm just about possitive on the "ORANGE" phase, but not sure on how the "YELLOW" phase came about. This is just my thoughts on it, seeing how much yellow is displayed in the Amel. Emory.
I know Don has quite a bit of knowledge on the Emory lines seeing how he was the one who introduced the Amel. Emory into the hobby. Maybe he could be a great help on this subject.
How about it Don, you out there?
Walter :wavey:
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
Hi Walter,
Thanks for the info. I would like to know more about how the Yellow and Orange phases of the Creamsicles came about and I have seen other color phases as well. I am sure that we can drag Don into the discussion.
I see one potential problem with your methods to get to the goal of a Striped Creamsicle, unless I am mistaken about some things, which is always a very distinct possibility. We are always learning. I was under the assumption that the Amel Emory was a newly discovered Amel gene that is not compatible with the Amel gene in Corns. If this is true, then Creamsicles that are created with the Amel Emory gene and the Amel Corn gene would not be compatible and normal phase Emory/corns would be produced if they were bred together that would be double het for the two amel genes.
I would also think that a Corn created with the Amel Emory gene X Corn would not be a Creamsicle, since the make up of these corns would not be the same as Creamsicles and they would not be compatible. It seems to me that any Hybrids or Intergrades if you prefer, from that cross would need to be called something other than a Creamsicle.
Thanks for the info. I would like to know more about how the Yellow and Orange phases of the Creamsicles came about and I have seen other color phases as well. I am sure that we can drag Don into the discussion.
I see one potential problem with your methods to get to the goal of a Striped Creamsicle, unless I am mistaken about some things, which is always a very distinct possibility. We are always learning. I was under the assumption that the Amel Emory was a newly discovered Amel gene that is not compatible with the Amel gene in Corns. If this is true, then Creamsicles that are created with the Amel Emory gene and the Amel Corn gene would not be compatible and normal phase Emory/corns would be produced if they were bred together that would be double het for the two amel genes.
I would also think that a Corn created with the Amel Emory gene X Corn would not be a Creamsicle, since the make up of these corns would not be the same as Creamsicles and they would not be compatible. It seems to me that any Hybrids or Intergrades if you prefer, from that cross would need to be called something other than a Creamsicle.
Walter Smith
CRAZY BOUT' CORNS !!
Joe,
You are absolutely correct on the Amel. genes being unrelated in Corns and Emory.
And, you are also correct in that breeding an Amel. Emory and Amel. Corn would yield ALL Emory/Corns, But in the same case by adding the Striped trait, you would still yield Striped offspring in the F2 generation.
As far as the theory of breeding a Amel. Emory X Corn, and the Amelanistic F2 offspring from this breeding NOT being "CREAMSICLE" I'm not so sure?? I've never done this breeding.
Most everyone relates to Corn X Emory in some form of amelanism state, as "CREAMSICLE" and it reverts to my thoughts on different variations of coloration depending on the lineage used to produce them.
IMO, I think the term "CREAMSICLE" should be labled to anything in the AMELANISTIC from from breeding Corn X Emory
and,
Anything produced in a "NORMAL/NON-AMELANISTIC" form from breeding Corn X Emory be labled "EMORYCORN".
For instance the breeding of Butter X Emory.
IMO, all of the Amel. offspring from the F2 genertaion should be labled as "BUTTERCREAMS" or "BUTTER CREAMSICLES".
Now, the breeding of Caramel X Emory.
IMO, the F1 offspring should be labled "CARAMEL EMORYCORN"
Again, this is just my thoughts on these cases. I know there are alot of people out there that don't like Creamsilces because they are "Hybrids" or "Intergrades", which I refer to them as, but I like them and will always have them.
I'm venturing into some Creamsicle Projects that I think will be very interesting to the ones who do like them.
Walter :wavey:
You are absolutely correct on the Amel. genes being unrelated in Corns and Emory.
And, you are also correct in that breeding an Amel. Emory and Amel. Corn would yield ALL Emory/Corns, But in the same case by adding the Striped trait, you would still yield Striped offspring in the F2 generation.
As far as the theory of breeding a Amel. Emory X Corn, and the Amelanistic F2 offspring from this breeding NOT being "CREAMSICLE" I'm not so sure?? I've never done this breeding.
Most everyone relates to Corn X Emory in some form of amelanism state, as "CREAMSICLE" and it reverts to my thoughts on different variations of coloration depending on the lineage used to produce them.
IMO, I think the term "CREAMSICLE" should be labled to anything in the AMELANISTIC from from breeding Corn X Emory
and,
Anything produced in a "NORMAL/NON-AMELANISTIC" form from breeding Corn X Emory be labled "EMORYCORN".
For instance the breeding of Butter X Emory.
IMO, all of the Amel. offspring from the F2 genertaion should be labled as "BUTTERCREAMS" or "BUTTER CREAMSICLES".
Now, the breeding of Caramel X Emory.
IMO, the F1 offspring should be labled "CARAMEL EMORYCORN"
Again, this is just my thoughts on these cases. I know there are alot of people out there that don't like Creamsilces because they are "Hybrids" or "Intergrades", which I refer to them as, but I like them and will always have them.
I'm venturing into some Creamsicle Projects that I think will be very interesting to the ones who do like them.
Walter :wavey:
SODERBERGD
New member
Creamsicle . . .
I only bred the amelanistic Emory's rats with corns once. The results were so disappointing, I never did it again. That's when I found out the two amel genes weren't compatible, but the disappointment was in the F-2 generation. I couldn't tell the creamsicles from the albino Emory's. I think only one of the albinos jumped out and said "albino Emory's", but I wasn't 100% sure it was since I've produced (non albino Emory's) creamsicles that looked like albino Emory's. Several others were dangerously close to looking like those, but were probably just creamsicles. Hence, with the importance of the incompatibility issue, I thought it was dangerous to get albinos out there of which I was unsure of their genotype. I personally don't know anyone that ever bred an albino Emory's to a regular corn, but I don't get out much. BTW, I've produced creamsicles that one could swear were butter corns. Scary, huh?
Yellow creamsicle Vs orange creamsicle... The yellows are much tougher to produce. I figure it this way. If the albino version of the corn equates to a mostly orange animal, it's because the base color of the regular corn is brown. Hence, when you take out the melanin, you end up with orange. In my case, the original albino Emory's was caught in an area where the nominate race were predominantly silver with green markings. Hence, the base color of those is green. That translated to yellow markings on a white background in the albino form. The yellow creamsicles were hard to produce. The original ones from my lines were those green marked ones. It took about three successive generations to get some yellow ones. The corn snake base color of orange kept dominating the yellow of the Emory's. Now, when I breed two yellows together, I get yellows, but it was a long and hard road for me. I think it would be even tougher if one used the brown marked Emory's for their base stock in creating creamsicles.
I never liked the name "root beer" for the non albino creamsicle byproducts. I know that most corn snake morphs are named for foods and usually sweet desert types. Therefore, I guess "root beer" is in keeping with that tradition, but the reason I don't like it is because more than half of the non albino creamsicle byproducts are more chocolate colored than root beer and every shade of brown inbetween.
CHOCOLATE?! Another name I don't like. I'll never forget when an infamous breeder in Las Vegas was selling "chocolate" corns for $100.00 each. These were the non albino byproduct of creamsicle lines. I sold them back then for $15.00, but because I just called them intergrades or het for creamsicles, nobody paid much attention to them. He called them chocolates and was getting $100.00 each for them. AH the power of manipulative and deceptive marketing. I recall two customers telling me that when they bought theirs, the breeder 'forgot' to tell them the chocolates were intergrades. Now, many breed those (mostly on the West coast) and are probably unaware they're not pure corns. No matter what one calls them, I too believe somehow the name of the non corn element (Emory's) OR creamsicle should be advertised even if they're not albinos. I will admit that the name 'root beer' seems to be an accepted one for the non albinos of these hybrids.
Joe/Walter. I'm unaware of anyone crossing the albino Emory's with corns, but I'm sure the day is coming. Therefore, it's prudent to bring up this issue now before we have another identification problem on our hands. Since I sold all my Emory's rats, I will likely not join in on the "fun" of a thread of that subject so I'll wish you luck now. lol.
Don
South Mountain Reptiles
www.cornsnake.NET
I only bred the amelanistic Emory's rats with corns once. The results were so disappointing, I never did it again. That's when I found out the two amel genes weren't compatible, but the disappointment was in the F-2 generation. I couldn't tell the creamsicles from the albino Emory's. I think only one of the albinos jumped out and said "albino Emory's", but I wasn't 100% sure it was since I've produced (non albino Emory's) creamsicles that looked like albino Emory's. Several others were dangerously close to looking like those, but were probably just creamsicles. Hence, with the importance of the incompatibility issue, I thought it was dangerous to get albinos out there of which I was unsure of their genotype. I personally don't know anyone that ever bred an albino Emory's to a regular corn, but I don't get out much. BTW, I've produced creamsicles that one could swear were butter corns. Scary, huh?
Yellow creamsicle Vs orange creamsicle... The yellows are much tougher to produce. I figure it this way. If the albino version of the corn equates to a mostly orange animal, it's because the base color of the regular corn is brown. Hence, when you take out the melanin, you end up with orange. In my case, the original albino Emory's was caught in an area where the nominate race were predominantly silver with green markings. Hence, the base color of those is green. That translated to yellow markings on a white background in the albino form. The yellow creamsicles were hard to produce. The original ones from my lines were those green marked ones. It took about three successive generations to get some yellow ones. The corn snake base color of orange kept dominating the yellow of the Emory's. Now, when I breed two yellows together, I get yellows, but it was a long and hard road for me. I think it would be even tougher if one used the brown marked Emory's for their base stock in creating creamsicles.
I never liked the name "root beer" for the non albino creamsicle byproducts. I know that most corn snake morphs are named for foods and usually sweet desert types. Therefore, I guess "root beer" is in keeping with that tradition, but the reason I don't like it is because more than half of the non albino creamsicle byproducts are more chocolate colored than root beer and every shade of brown inbetween.
CHOCOLATE?! Another name I don't like. I'll never forget when an infamous breeder in Las Vegas was selling "chocolate" corns for $100.00 each. These were the non albino byproduct of creamsicle lines. I sold them back then for $15.00, but because I just called them intergrades or het for creamsicles, nobody paid much attention to them. He called them chocolates and was getting $100.00 each for them. AH the power of manipulative and deceptive marketing. I recall two customers telling me that when they bought theirs, the breeder 'forgot' to tell them the chocolates were intergrades. Now, many breed those (mostly on the West coast) and are probably unaware they're not pure corns. No matter what one calls them, I too believe somehow the name of the non corn element (Emory's) OR creamsicle should be advertised even if they're not albinos. I will admit that the name 'root beer' seems to be an accepted one for the non albinos of these hybrids.
Joe/Walter. I'm unaware of anyone crossing the albino Emory's with corns, but I'm sure the day is coming. Therefore, it's prudent to bring up this issue now before we have another identification problem on our hands. Since I sold all my Emory's rats, I will likely not join in on the "fun" of a thread of that subject so I'll wish you luck now. lol.
Don
South Mountain Reptiles
www.cornsnake.NET
Jimmy Johnson
Old Timer
creams
This first one is a stripe creamsicle
Stripe:
Male Cream, Strider:
Female Cream, Eowyn:
This first one is a stripe creamsicle
Stripe:
Male Cream, Strider:
Female Cream, Eowyn:
Jimmy Johnson
Old Timer
a few more
Female reverse/okeetee cream (not quite full enough white borders but not a bad looking snake) Yoda:
Female Cream, Arwen:
Hatchling cream (parents Arwen and Strider)
Hatchling cream (parents Yoda and Strider) Should end up with wider white borders then her mother, Yoda. Shows up a little reder then she actually is.
Female reverse/okeetee cream (not quite full enough white borders but not a bad looking snake) Yoda:
Female Cream, Arwen:
Hatchling cream (parents Arwen and Strider)
Hatchling cream (parents Yoda and Strider) Should end up with wider white borders then her mother, Yoda. Shows up a little reder then she actually is.
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
I respectfully disagree with this position. Since Creamsicles are created with Amel Type A from Corns, then a cross of Amel Type B from Emory Rats, Amel Emory X Corn would not be compatible and should not be included in the Creamsicle group. The point of naming a group of Corns is to identify the genetics involved in creating the morph with the name.Walter Smith said:
This is the same situation as Anery A and Anery B Corns. They look very similar, but are not compatible and therefore have different common names. If we called a Ghost that was created with Anery B, just a Ghost, there would be some serious compatibility problems down the road.
If we call Snakes that are created with Amel Emory X Corns, Creamsicles, they will not be compatible with the Creamsicles we know today. Since they do not seem to exist yet, it is not a problem now, but it will be in the future.
I have never been fond of Creamsicles before, not because of them being hybrids/intergrades, but I like Red Amels. I do like the Striped Creamsicles however. The Striped Gene seems to bring out the best in all morphs.
I am still a little unclear on the Yellow versus Orange Creamsicles, but I would think that a 75% Emory Cream would be yellow and a 75% Corn Cream would be orange. There could be some very interesting morphs created with the different percentage of mixes when combined with other morphs like Lavender or how about Ultramel!
