Curious, what do you think? Butter or Caramel or????

[pfeiffer]

I have had Popcorn the larger snake for quite a while now (well over a year) i bought him at a reptile store and he was labeled as a butter, the smaller one (no name yet because it takes me forever to decide on one I like...lol) was just purchased recently from a private collector and he told me he is a butter. I was wondering if there is this much color variation in the butter morph or is the smaller guy something besides a butter?
I know colors can change as snakes grow but, popcorn has always been very light in color even when he was as young as my new lil guy.
And the other butters I have seen that are owned by friends of mine and that I have looked at in reptile shops always seem to be lighter like popcorn.

Any suggestions are appreciated, and for the record they are not housed together I put them together for the photos to show the color contrast between them.

Thanks for all your help as always!!!!

new guy

new guy

popcorn

new guy

popcorn

both

popcorn

new guy

 

[RobbiesCornField]

To me, they look like an amel and a snow in the last picture. Then again, I don't have any butters of my own to compare with, so I may not be the best judge.

 

[pfeiffer]

To me, they look like an amel and a snow in the last picture. Then again, I don't have any butters of my own to compare with, so I may not be the best judge.

I had posted previously on another of my snakes Stump asking what he was and was told he is an Amel, are there LOTS of variations of Amel's?
here is his pic, in the above pics both snakes are yellow's and the new guy has a caramelish color on his saddles but neither have any reds or oranges in them.
I am still learning about morphs so I am always open to suggestions.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

There's quite a bit of variation in all morphs. That's what makes them so much fun! But like I said, I don't really have any butters of my own to compare with, but if the new guy has red eyes, he's definitely amel + something else.

 

[pfeiffer]

There's quite a bit of variation in all morphs. That's what makes them so much fun! But like I said, I don't really have any butters of my own to compare with, but if the new guy has red eyes, he's definitely amel + something else.

I am new to all the different morphs so I really do appreciate the suggestions.
Since both (possible "butters"???) have pink eyes does that mean they are both amel's?

And this is another question, I had asked about an the last pictured snake Stump in a previous post because the owner said it was albino and I received an answer saying an amel is a red albino. since neither of the 1st set of pictured snakes have any red or orange in them they could be Amel mixed with another morph or het amel?

I am wanting to start breeding actively next season so I am really trying to learn as much as possible about morphs and hets, I know I need some basic understanding before I go forward with breeding.

 

[Shiari]

They both look like butters to me. The new one can't be just a caramel because he has the red eyes from the amelanism gene.

 

[pfeiffer]

They both look like butters to me. The new one can't be just a caramel because he has the red eyes from the amelanism gene.

Do you think it could be het caramel possibly? His saddles are just so much darker than the butters I have encountered.

And another question, do all butters have amel in them?
I am not even sure what morphs you need to mix together to get a butter, I am still learning......I really need so much help....lol

Do you know if the Kathy Love book I keep hearing about explains how to combine morphs to make other morphs? I was thinking about ordering it, and if it does help with that part then I am ordering for sure!!!

 

[Shiari]

Butter is amelanism and caramel at the same time. Both traits are being expressed. If he was het, he *might* show more orange, but the brown saddles suggest being homozygous to me. Animals change color a great deal as they age. Some get lighter, some darker.

 

[Marica]

Some good threads on this site to check out:
Genetics/Morph FAQ
Genetics Tutorial

As for books, Kathy Love's deals more with basic husbandry, but a definite to have in your collection. You can probably pick up a copy at a local pet or book store. If you are looking for more detailed information about the various morphs I'd suggest ordering the Cornsnake Morph Guide.

Popcorn does look like a Butter in most of your pictures, but could be labeled a Snow in the one like Robbie suggested. And, your New Guy does look like he's quite orange in most of the pics. Lighting can really affect a photo id. Sorry I can't be of more help as I am also in the morph learning process.

Good luck.

 

[Ssthisto]

In the photograph with both of them together, Popcorn (the lighter one) seems to have a *white* ground colour and *peachy* saddles, which would make me think he's a snow, not a butter.

The new fellow could be either a very dark butter OR a very yellow amelanistic.

Can you take a photo of them both outside in natural sunlight, with no flash?

 

[Blue Apple Herps]

Both are butters.

 

[pfeiffer]

Thanks for all the help and suggestions....I always appresiate all the advice I can get!!!

 

[pfeiffer]

appreciate...lol

 

[Susan]

Can you take a photo of them both outside in natural sunlight, with no flash?

This is basically a must! Trying to identify if a snake is a snow, an amel or a butter when all the photos have a heavy yellow wash is extremely difficult.

 

[Slipmattic]

It looks like you have an amel. and a snow to me, niether one looks to be a butter.

 

[Slipmattic]

And better photos would help out alot.

 

[TandJ]

Again.. Looks like a Vomitmel and Snow..

Butter..

Amel/Vomitmel..

Amel/vomitmel

Creamsicle..

 

[pfeiffer]

Sorry i haven't gotten the better/outdoor pics yet....we moved a town over and haven't found the wire to download pics from the camera to the laptop in all the unpacking yet.....lol
HOPEFULLY SOON!!!!

 

[Medevil_Nuke]

Its a butter all right. Its lacking black in it if Im correct, so caramel is impossible.