Dog Questions

[zwyatt]

IIRC, there's at least a few folks on the board who have a fair amount of experience with dogs (breeds, showing, etc) and lots of folks who have dogs. I've got some things I was wondering about, if anyone can help me out.

I'm looking into getting a dog. Well, my minds made up, but I'm just now starting to look around for breeders and things. Particularly, I've really been looking for a Greater Swiss Mountain Dog. They don't appear to be all too abundant, but I've got a list of a small handful of breeders in Illinois and the surrounding states.

Now for the questions:

Sources of info: Are there any good dog forums that I'm not aware of or any other really good sources of info on the net?
I know about the AKC's site and also found the website for a Swissy club in my general area. I'm also just asking about dog info in general and not just info for one specific breed. For instance, thecatsite.com is a big forum for cats. Is there a "dogsite" equivalent?


Pricing: I've emailed a few breeders about general info and the first who replied quoted me $1500 as being the price for their companion puppies. Now I realize that going through established breeders with AKC registered stock etc costs more money and I was prepared to spend a decent chunk of change, but 1500 seemed high to me. :shrugs:
Maybe it's something about this particular breed that I don't know. Or perhaps this particular breeder just charges more than most.


Anyways, any help or input anyone can give would be much appreciated.
Thanks

 

[Colleen360]

$1500 seems a little high for pet quality to me, but I haven't ever looked into prices for this particular breed. However, I always think that if you are going to buy from a breeder, go with a more reputable one. These breeders most likely will have tests done on the dogs parents to help prevent genetic diseases. For example, the breeder I work for has all of his breeding stocks' eyes and ears certified. He also tests for the dog equivilant of "STDs." Any dog that is coming in for breeding must have these "STD" type tests done before he will let it be bred to any of our dogs. After all, these people are usually in it to produce high quality dogs that will win and be able to produce more winning dogs. They usually aren't in it just to produce puppies because they are cute and they can make money off of them. You could try talking to this breeder and get a feel for what the money really goes for. Ask about any testing that they do, what types of food they feed, that kind of thing. If they are doing a lot of tests to make sure the dogs are sound, that could contribute to the high price. Also, most breed sites will have a rescue listed on it. The AKC website has breed rescue links. You could always go that route.

 

[Colleen360]

I wish I knew how to edit! Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs are also prone to hip dysplasia, so any good breeder will have every breeding dog's hips certified clear. In my opinion, if I were going to buy a dog with this particular problem, I would only buy it if its parents were certified clear.

 

[zwyatt]

I wish I knew how to edit! Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs are also prone to hip dysplasia, so any good breeder will have every breeding dog's hips certified clear. In my opinion, if I were going to buy a dog with this particular problem, I would only buy it if its parents were certified clear.

Thanks for the quick reply and the info! I had read a short bit about problems that they are prone to, but hadn't really gotten far enough to know about having the hips checked and everything. I'll have to do a lot more reading up on those types of things.

The breeder I heard from seems to really have things together and gave me a quick rundown of the shots/etc that the puppies have before leaving. I have no doubt that with many reputable breeders 1500 is a good investment even in a pet quality animal. However, I just don't have that kind of cash to spring right now. Even if I made it a birthday/Christmas present from my parents, it's still a bit much for me personally.

I'll have to look into the rescue option. From my past experience and from a lot of what I've seen and heard, rescues tend to be a slightly older (at least not puppies). Maybe it seems selfish or dumb or ______ (insert your own term here) but I'd really rather have a puppy straight from a breeder that I raise from the start. :shrugs: I'll still look at that option just in case.

Again, thanks for all the helpful ideas!

 

[stangs13]

SMDs are rare, but you ,like said above, have found breeders, thats a good start, next thing is to find shelters, shelters are a number one place to find a pet dog.



HD- DEFF. make sure the puppy is checked, it will be really really bad to buy a 1500 pup and it ends up having HD.


You've kept snakes before, and the first thing you tell noobs that want a snake is to do research, and thats the best thing you can do before you get a dog. Its alot of work, as ive found out :grin01: . Good luck with your pup find!!!

 

[Hurley]

Be aware that Swissies can be orthopedic wrecks. They are big, fast-growing dogs and often people grow them up too fast. We get them in for shoulder OCD lesions, fragmented medial coronoids in the elbows, hip dysplasia, and ruptured ACLs at quite young ages. Most of these things, in my opinion, are at least worsened, if not caused by an animal whose weight far exceeds what its soft-tissues can take, leading to cartilage damage --> OCD in the shoulders, too much weight on the ulna -->medial coronoid fragmentation in the elbows, and wear and tear/strain/stress leading to ACL tears in the rear limbs.

If you get a Swissie, keep them on a good exercise program (not "weekend warrior" tear and thumping for an hour once a week) to keep their muscles, tendons, and ligaments stimulated to be strong and bear their weight. Don't feed puppy food past 6 months at the very latest. I switch even earlier than that, personally. They don't need to be round, rolly-polly pups, esp a large breed dog. Keep them lean and fit to try to avoid those orthopedic nightmares.

Go with a respected, reputable breeder. They should at bare minimum have their breeders CERFed (eyes) and OFAed for Hips. Better would be if they've had shoulders and elbows OFAed, too, given the problems in the breed.

$1500 doesn't sound unreasonable to me for a more rare breed where the breeder has done their work. The show Aussie people I know are selling show prospects for $1500 to $2000 and pet prospects at $750 to $1000, and Aussies are a pretty common breed.

You can contact rescues, being prepared to deal with some of the problems many rescue dogs have (poor upbringing, anxiety issues, other behavior issues) and that it's an older dog in which you've lost the "sponge months" of puppyhood where they absorb training like little sponges. I'd be shocked if you found a Swissie in a pound.

Good news is Swissies tend to have very nice personalities and are quite lovable. Good luck in your search.

 

[Colleen360]

A note on dog food. If you look at the nutritional analysis, you will see "guaranteed for growth," or "guaranteed for all life stages." Something to that effect. Don't look at the title of the dog food, its just marketing, but look at the life stages that it is really made for. Personally, I always make sure I get a food that is for "all life stages."

 

[zwyatt]

Stangs, thanks for the input. As far as research goes on all the basics and knowing how much work dogs are, I've got that under control. I've grown up raising dogs and cats all my life. Now that I'm living on my own (well, 3 years after moving out on my own ), I'm wanting to get a dog of my own.


Hurley,
Thanks for all the wonderful info! In the future, I will certainly ask any breeders I talk to about the things you have mentioned.
It seems my family is drawn to breeds with known issues. My dad owns a dachsund (sp?) (what with the back problems) and my sister owns a pug, which snores louder than any person I've known (well almost).

If I do end up with this breed, I will do everything in my power to try to ensure that the typical problems can be avoided. I can't stand the thought of a pet being in constant pain or discomfort, especially if it's because of something I didn't do properly.
Hopefully, I'll be able to find a breeder that meets all my standards, but still doesn't charge an arm and a leg. Perhaps, I may end up having to go with a more common breed for my first dog. I'm quite fond of Huskies.

Obviously, there's no guarantee that a given dog will avoid certain health conditions. But given that there are "common" health issues with Swissies, can it be said that there is generally a lower occurrence of these problems if the owner does his best to ensure a healthy diet, excercise, etc.?
I'd just hate to buy a breed where I know that there's a good chance for it to be in pain or discomfort regardless of the lengths I go to to keep it healthy.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[Colleen360]

Well, if you make sure the parents have been screened for those health problems(and were clear!) and you provide proper nutrition and exercise, you have a very good chance of avoiding problems. Don't let the health problems deter you. All breeds have problems that come with them. Some are worse than others. With any breed, research the problems that are common to it, then see what you can do to avoid it(certifications on parents, nutrition, exercise).

 

[simple_minded]

Hi, there is a great dog forum on forum.dog.com. It's full of wonderful people who breed and show champion dogs. I'm an occasional poster on that site, since I have 2 dogs myself. And I'm sure they will be more than happy to answer your questions.

Have you looked on Petfinder.com? It's a website for shelter dogs, and they always have puppies or young dogs.

The good thing about adult dogs is that you already know of any social or behavior problems the dog might have. Puppies are easily impressionable. Sometimes a puppy might get bullied when he's playing with another dog, and grow up with fear aggression towards other dogs. But adult dogs, their temperments are generally set, unless something traumatic happens in their life.

If you're looking for a breeder, make SURE you ask to see both the mother and the father, and ask to pet them. Reputable breeders will also let you see the puppy's pedigree.

Good luck in your search!

 

[zwyatt]

Hi, there is a great dog forum on forum.dog.com. It's full of wonderful people who breed and show champion dogs. I'm an occasional poster on that site, since I have 2 dogs myself. And I'm sure they will be more than happy to answer your questions.

Thanks! I missed that one somehow. I've already read-up on a few things over there.

 

[LizardMom]

It will be hard to find a Swissie for much less than you were quoted, just because there are not a lot of people breeding them in the US. That's also a problem with the health issues, as the gene pool here is just not that big.

The smaller the gene pool, the easier it is for health problems to be unconsciously 'bred for' as eventualy all the animals in a given country end up being related somehow. Even if the parents do not exhibit the problem, the puppies may still be genetically pre-disposed.

Good luck in your search. They're lovely dogs.

 

[Tyger9791]

$1500 is not unreasonable at all for a purebred. definitely ask to see the parents if possible and inquire about their other litters. a good breeder may even give you references of the other people they've sold pups to so you can see how the other pups are doing.

If it were a more common breed I'd recommend going the rescue route. But, I do think it will be hard to find a Swissie. Doesnt hurt to try though. Sometimes at the shelter we get purebreds dumped on us. The last pups of the litter that do not get bought. Or some backyard breeder who doesnt know what they're doing and cant afford all the papers and shots necessary to sell the pups legally.
I'm all for rescueing shelter dogs and adopting from fosters. I am a foster myself. But I'm not against anyone wanting a purebred.

 

[Colleen360]

Hes right, $1500 isnt unreasonable, unless the owner doesn't really know what he is doing and has had no tests on the parents at all. I would expect hip certifications and that stuff on a dog that price. The breeder I work for usually sells show quality dogs between $800-$1500. Parson Russells(Jack Russells) are considered a rare breed by AKC, but there are a ton of home breeders. What I'm trying to say, is you usually get what you pay for. And for that price, make sure you are getting a high quality, healthy dog.

 

[Tyger9791]

oh yeah we get jacks in all the time. backyard breeders trying to make a quick buck but then quickly find out that most people arent going to buy the pups from them. so they end up at the shelter. and usually these dogs have health problems. we cant even say they're purebred. we have to label them as mixes because they have no papers.
bottom line, do your homework. do your research and shop around.
oh and one more thing, dont buy a puppy thats listed in the classified ads of a newspaper. those ads are almost always placed by backyard breeders. though i'd be surprised to see a swissie listed in a newspaper.
if theres a dog show near you, check it out. we have a dog show once a year here and breeders from all over the country bring their finest dogs to show. and you can get a ton of info from them. even referrals from them about other breeders.

 

[JenC]

My aunt has a Swissy, and the one before that had to be put to sleep at age 3 because his hip problems were so severe he was on over 14 pills a DAY some on the hour every hour, and could not stand. He was not overweight, and his parents and generations ebfore that were all perfet healthy dogs. They do NOT have a long life span, most dont get past 7 or 8 y/o.

The drool is HORRIFIC! Everytime they shake drool gets all over the ceiling walls its just gross and nasty and Her house SMELLS so bad. I could never have a dog like that (as much as i love dogs) They are beautiful dogs, but not something i would want in my house.

Another thing with these dogs, I know some people who, when house training a dog, will roll up news paper and tap the nose or the hind end (not hard, but enough to say yanno, this isnt right) Large breed dogs u cant do that with, it totally screws up their hips, even slight taps.

These dogs are ALSO VERY prone to YEASt infections under their chin and inbtwn paw pads. Caused from the water going on their chin when they drink and staying in the skin folds. And when they lay down resting their chin on their feets.

Here is a pic of him at one of our cookouts last year, hes a great dog, biggest chicken shyt tho..LOL afraid of his own shadow. She got him for free from the breeder of her past swissie, bcuz of the problems he went thro. So she got gus, this beautiful (he is a show quality dog, worth alot of money) boy.

 

[zwyatt]

My aunt has a Swissy, and the one before that had to be put to sleep at age 3 because his hip problems were so severe he was on over 14 pills a DAY some on the hour every hour, and could not stand. He was not overweight, and his parents and generations ebfore that were all perfet healthy dogs. They do NOT have a long life span, most dont get past 7 or 8 y/o.

The drool is HORRIFIC! Everytime they shake drool gets all over the ceiling walls its just gross and nasty and Her house SMELLS so bad. I could never have a dog like that (as much as i love dogs) They are beautiful dogs, but not something i would want in my house.

Another thing with these dogs, I know some people who, when house training a dog, will roll up news paper and tap the nose or the hind end (not hard, but enough to say yanno, this isnt right) Large breed dogs u cant do that with, it totally screws up their hips, even slight taps.

These dogs are ALSO VERY prone to YEASt infections under their chin and inbtwn paw pads. Caused from the water going on their chin when they drink and staying in the skin folds. And when they lay down resting their chin on their feets.

Here is a pic of him at one of our cookouts last year, hes a great dog, biggest chicken shyt tho..LOL afraid of his own shadow. She got him for free from the breeder of her past swissie, bcuz of the problems he went thro. So she got gus, this beautiful (he is a show quality dog, worth alot of money) boy.

Thanks for those horror stories, Jen!

If those wouldn't scare somebody away from a dog breed I don't know what would. I've actually contacted a few breeders about general information and other things and so far both of the ones I have asked have all their breeder dog's eyes, hips, shoulders, and elbows checked.

 

[JenC]

LOL! Im sorry!! But i was just telling you yanno, even if the pup is hip/elbow etc certified as a pup and his ancestors were, doesnt mean that he cant get it a year or two down the road. And the drool really is horrible! The yeast smells so bad! and they crap the size of burmese pythons.... :crazy02:

 

[kansasgirl]

I would expect to spend at least $1500 on that breed with a good breeder, and quite possibly be on a waiting list for over a year. Also, expect to be screened for your ability to provide the right home (good breeders will turn some people down!) and sign a form swearing on your firstborn's life that if anything happens and you can't keep the dog, you will give it back to the breeder vs. euthanasia or relinquishment to a shelter etc.

As far as hips go, ask for PennHip (PenHIPP?) certification. It is looking more reliable than OFA and can be performed on a 16 week old pup. It looks for hip laxity rather than deformation, because it seems laxity may contribute to future deformation. It's more expensive and not as common but in my opinion worth it. Purina did a 14 yr study with Labradors - PennHip said all were going to have hip dysplasia, OFA said some low %, and in the end, 47/48 had hip dysplasia. Even if the dog's already had OFA done (not reliable under 2 years of age, can't get a number, just an estimate), you can still get PennHip. You might have to offer to pay for it, sort of a pre-purchase exam. PennHip not available for elbows though. Not all vets can do PennHip, they have to be certified, whereas any vet can do OFA.

No matter how hard you work at this, you can still get your heart broken. I've seen a 4-6 month old pup (I think this one was a Bernese, but it might have been a Greater Swiss) with cancer.

Good luck! Sherry

 

[zwyatt]

LOL! Im sorry!! But i was just telling you yanno, even if the pup is hip/elbow etc certified as a pup and his ancestors were, doesnt mean that he cant get it a year or two down the road. And the drool really is horrible! The yeast smells so bad! and they crap the size of burmese pythons.... :crazy02:

I'm prepared for drool! My sister was warned about infection problems with her Pug. Evidently, they tend to get infections because of the folds around their nose and face area. In the past year, she's not had any problems and I think all the more she does is just give the dog a bath every so often (not sure on the frequency).

Just like dogs, there's no guarantee that the hypo lav blood you buy next week won't develop a kink even though his parents didn't have any

But I realize you're point and I appreciate your replies. Along with all the good stuff you've got to hear about the bad, because that's reality.