Asbit
So Many Morphs...
Before everyone flames me for it taking so long for my snake to make it to the vet, please read the following story carefully. I have chosen to post it so that others can hopefully learn from Gaea and I's experience and also because I am looking for some support and advice.
Gaea is an Amel Motley that I purchased from a pet store (Nov 2009 approx age 1 yr 10 mths, 120 gms). The pet store told me after I paid for her, that they knew for sure she was a female as she had been co-habbed and laid 5 slugs in the spring of 2009 at the age of approx. 1yr 4 mths!
My intentions were to get her back to proper health, muscle tone and weight for breeding by spring 2011 or later if need be.
Fast forward to April 2010. She has had 6 mths with regular exercise (great muscle tone) regular feeds(7-12 days), perfect temps( controlled UTH), monitored by a digital thermometer, warm hide, cool hide and fresh water every 4 day or sooner if needed. Gained weight to 244gms on April 6, 2010.
She has always been one that you need tongs to feed her with or you may loose a finger! Come the next feed on the 13th of April she looked fat, very fat throughout approx. 1/2 of her body. I could see the skin between her scales and when I picked her up to feed her I ran her through my fingers to see if I could feel eggs as I had read on here and I could feel several bumps as though she had large marbles in her, or a string of pearls. Although I have not bred any of my snakes yet, I have been researching like crazy so that I would be ready when the time comes. I knew that there was a possibility of retained sperm and a possibility that she could just make unfertile eggs(slugs) because she had made eggs the year before. I also knew that I should keep feeding her until she went off of food on her own. So I gave her a meal which she showed no interest in for atleast 10-15 min (I finally laid the mouse in her tub and left it with her) but she did finally eat it.
I consulted many of the great people on here and was told it could be one of 3 things:
-retained sperm and she was gravid
-she laid last year and was now going to lay every year regardless of being mated or not
-she might just be ovulating
I was advised:
-give her a lay box
-feed her smaller meals until she stops eating
-she should lay about 10+ days after she sheds
-she could reabsorb the eggs
-hold her up by her neck area and tail area and let her belly sag, could I see bumps? which I was able to see bumps very clearly
I kept offering smaller meals, which she became less and less enthused about but did eat. She was given a shed box, with forest moss, which I had problems with. The forest moss (only thing I could get in my city) kept molding with in 24-48hrs. Eventually, I changed the lay box medium to moist aspen but that was not much better. So I consulted the forum again and was advised that if I did not want the eggs, then I did not have to worry about a lay box as she would just lay them in the aspen in her viv.
She shed on May 14 but needed help with it as she would not come out of the warm side hide and was dry and wrinkly. After a good soak she peeled it off with no problem. So then I was expecting eggs in the next couple of weeks, even though she had not stopped eating.
By the beginning of June there was no eggs and she looked smaller, so I assumed she must have reabsorbed them. She still had not resumed her usual feeding response and I kept her meals smaller and meals spaced out closer to an average of 10 days a part.
Mid June it started to dawn on me that although she is still pooping it is not as much as she usually does. I took her out of her viv and gave her an 85 degree swim for about 15 min, she was very displeased. This only gained a small bit of urates, no poop and no eggs. Once I took her out of the tub and calmed her down I made a point of feeling her belly really firmly and I discovered that I could still feel eggs, smaller than before but definitely still there!!
At this point I got her out of her viv every second day for exercise and gave her swims much to her dismay, all without any success. By the 20th of June she was roaming her viv a lot but still no eggs. I called the herp vet at the Western College for Veterinary Medicine, spoke with a herp vet, made an appointment which had to be canceled as my kitchen facet ruptured and had to be replaced and with me as the only income earner until my husbands rig is back on line, it had to be the facet first.
I re-booked the appointment for July 7th, this past Wed. The vet did an x-ray and confirmed that there is definitely eggs in her. Their initial plan was to give Oxytocine(?) and see if that would help her to pass the eggs on her own. Then if that did not work they would then operate. Thanks to wonderful forums like this one I was able to take to them another less invasive alternative as a step before surgery, that DR. Walton at the Dewdney Animal Hospital in BC has successfully done with egg bound corns. It involves two anesthetics, forceps for dilating the cloaca, using a syringe to aspirate the stuck egg (if possible) and if not then cut the stuck egg while in the cloaca and remove it, then insert an amount of lubricant into the snake to allow for manual movement and removal of the remaining eggs. If any one wants, I could copy and paste his write up or link to it.
So my baby has been in the hospital since Wed July 7, 2010. The vet has tried Dr. Walton's method but were unsuccessful, she has also been given the Oxytocine and at this point has not laid any eggs so if by tomorrow the eggs are still in her she goes under the knife.
I am so worried about her, I love her so much and do not want to loose her. I can not help but feel that some how I have done something wrong and have caused her life to be in danger. The vet has told me that their definition of slugs is an egg that either was not viable(infertile) or that became non viable (was fertile and something caused the egg to die). They have also told me that there really is not set time frame to say is to long to have waited as there are a variety of things that can cause problems with eggs and only if and when they have to open her up, can they say 100% for sure that she is egg bound and that some other thing has not caused this problem.
I have tried to hold off posting this as it is very long winded and I was not sure who would want to hear it or how much I would get slammed for it but I am really worried for her and the earliest she can come home will not be until Sat.
I really wish I had a more solid answer for why this happened and how long is to long to have waited. She never did stop eating and she started to get smaller and I for a little while I was unsure if I could feel eggs, I definitely could not see them anymore, so I thought she was reabsorbing them.
I have even asked the vet if they end up having to do surgery could they just remove her uterus as I would be afraid of this happening again, as I know that many snakes will lay eggs year after year regardless of being bred or not. I just would be crushed if she went through this again. Not to mention I don't have another $850-$920 to shell out again if it could be prevented. I was told that they would not remove her uterus unless it happened a second time, then they would go ahead but not based on a first time problem as many times the snake can make a full recovery and even go on to breed if given approx. 2 yrs to heal and regain growth/health/muscle tone.
Any thoughts, ideas or advice?? Being that I plan to breed in the future when my girls are ready, I would like to make sure this does not happen again. I am so worried for my snake and I have always done everything possible to ensure they are cared for in the best possible way.
Here's two pic's of her. Thanks for listening.
Gaea is an Amel Motley that I purchased from a pet store (Nov 2009 approx age 1 yr 10 mths, 120 gms). The pet store told me after I paid for her, that they knew for sure she was a female as she had been co-habbed and laid 5 slugs in the spring of 2009 at the age of approx. 1yr 4 mths!
My intentions were to get her back to proper health, muscle tone and weight for breeding by spring 2011 or later if need be.
Fast forward to April 2010. She has had 6 mths with regular exercise (great muscle tone) regular feeds(7-12 days), perfect temps( controlled UTH), monitored by a digital thermometer, warm hide, cool hide and fresh water every 4 day or sooner if needed. Gained weight to 244gms on April 6, 2010.
She has always been one that you need tongs to feed her with or you may loose a finger! Come the next feed on the 13th of April she looked fat, very fat throughout approx. 1/2 of her body. I could see the skin between her scales and when I picked her up to feed her I ran her through my fingers to see if I could feel eggs as I had read on here and I could feel several bumps as though she had large marbles in her, or a string of pearls. Although I have not bred any of my snakes yet, I have been researching like crazy so that I would be ready when the time comes. I knew that there was a possibility of retained sperm and a possibility that she could just make unfertile eggs(slugs) because she had made eggs the year before. I also knew that I should keep feeding her until she went off of food on her own. So I gave her a meal which she showed no interest in for atleast 10-15 min (I finally laid the mouse in her tub and left it with her) but she did finally eat it.
I consulted many of the great people on here and was told it could be one of 3 things:
-retained sperm and she was gravid
-she laid last year and was now going to lay every year regardless of being mated or not
-she might just be ovulating
I was advised:
-give her a lay box
-feed her smaller meals until she stops eating
-she should lay about 10+ days after she sheds
-she could reabsorb the eggs
-hold her up by her neck area and tail area and let her belly sag, could I see bumps? which I was able to see bumps very clearly
I kept offering smaller meals, which she became less and less enthused about but did eat. She was given a shed box, with forest moss, which I had problems with. The forest moss (only thing I could get in my city) kept molding with in 24-48hrs. Eventually, I changed the lay box medium to moist aspen but that was not much better. So I consulted the forum again and was advised that if I did not want the eggs, then I did not have to worry about a lay box as she would just lay them in the aspen in her viv.
She shed on May 14 but needed help with it as she would not come out of the warm side hide and was dry and wrinkly. After a good soak she peeled it off with no problem. So then I was expecting eggs in the next couple of weeks, even though she had not stopped eating.
By the beginning of June there was no eggs and she looked smaller, so I assumed she must have reabsorbed them. She still had not resumed her usual feeding response and I kept her meals smaller and meals spaced out closer to an average of 10 days a part.
Mid June it started to dawn on me that although she is still pooping it is not as much as she usually does. I took her out of her viv and gave her an 85 degree swim for about 15 min, she was very displeased. This only gained a small bit of urates, no poop and no eggs. Once I took her out of the tub and calmed her down I made a point of feeling her belly really firmly and I discovered that I could still feel eggs, smaller than before but definitely still there!!
At this point I got her out of her viv every second day for exercise and gave her swims much to her dismay, all without any success. By the 20th of June she was roaming her viv a lot but still no eggs. I called the herp vet at the Western College for Veterinary Medicine, spoke with a herp vet, made an appointment which had to be canceled as my kitchen facet ruptured and had to be replaced and with me as the only income earner until my husbands rig is back on line, it had to be the facet first.
I re-booked the appointment for July 7th, this past Wed. The vet did an x-ray and confirmed that there is definitely eggs in her. Their initial plan was to give Oxytocine(?) and see if that would help her to pass the eggs on her own. Then if that did not work they would then operate. Thanks to wonderful forums like this one I was able to take to them another less invasive alternative as a step before surgery, that DR. Walton at the Dewdney Animal Hospital in BC has successfully done with egg bound corns. It involves two anesthetics, forceps for dilating the cloaca, using a syringe to aspirate the stuck egg (if possible) and if not then cut the stuck egg while in the cloaca and remove it, then insert an amount of lubricant into the snake to allow for manual movement and removal of the remaining eggs. If any one wants, I could copy and paste his write up or link to it.
So my baby has been in the hospital since Wed July 7, 2010. The vet has tried Dr. Walton's method but were unsuccessful, she has also been given the Oxytocine and at this point has not laid any eggs so if by tomorrow the eggs are still in her she goes under the knife.
I am so worried about her, I love her so much and do not want to loose her. I can not help but feel that some how I have done something wrong and have caused her life to be in danger. The vet has told me that their definition of slugs is an egg that either was not viable(infertile) or that became non viable (was fertile and something caused the egg to die). They have also told me that there really is not set time frame to say is to long to have waited as there are a variety of things that can cause problems with eggs and only if and when they have to open her up, can they say 100% for sure that she is egg bound and that some other thing has not caused this problem.
I have tried to hold off posting this as it is very long winded and I was not sure who would want to hear it or how much I would get slammed for it but I am really worried for her and the earliest she can come home will not be until Sat.
I really wish I had a more solid answer for why this happened and how long is to long to have waited. She never did stop eating and she started to get smaller and I for a little while I was unsure if I could feel eggs, I definitely could not see them anymore, so I thought she was reabsorbing them.
I have even asked the vet if they end up having to do surgery could they just remove her uterus as I would be afraid of this happening again, as I know that many snakes will lay eggs year after year regardless of being bred or not. I just would be crushed if she went through this again. Not to mention I don't have another $850-$920 to shell out again if it could be prevented. I was told that they would not remove her uterus unless it happened a second time, then they would go ahead but not based on a first time problem as many times the snake can make a full recovery and even go on to breed if given approx. 2 yrs to heal and regain growth/health/muscle tone.
Any thoughts, ideas or advice?? Being that I plan to breed in the future when my girls are ready, I would like to make sure this does not happen again. I am so worried for my snake and I have always done everything possible to ensure they are cared for in the best possible way.
Here's two pic's of her. Thanks for listening.
