Food refusal with tank cruising and lid pushing

[Raptor]

Wasn't sure where to put this since it's not just a feeding issue or a behavior issue. Also cross posting this from a python forum I'm on.
----

My corn refused her food for about three weeks starting during the end of March. I had been feeding her ft, but offered her pk and she ate. Last friday saw another food refusal coupled with her really cruising her cage. She ate the previous week, no problem. Here lately she's been really active. She's been cruising her cage heavily and has started pushing on her tank cover (no sign of rubbing on her nose, yet). I've owned her since August of last year. At the show they had her in with two males.

I'm fairly inexperienced with cornsnake breeding, but is there anyway that she could have been bred and kept the sperm for later (I swore I read somewhere that it's possible)? From my understanding, females get really restless before laying. However, I have no idea what a gravid female looks like. She seems the same to me. I'm not running any heat for her right now since It gets up into the 80s during the day and the lower 70s at night.

I don't know her age. The breeders didn't tell me much off anything. I do know that she's female, has been bred before, clutched, and was fed live all her life.

Hopefully, I'm just worrying for nothing and she's getting plenty of exercise.

Obligatory pictures:

Tank is 30" x 12" x 12"
The set up is nothing special. Hide on the left side, waterbowl in the middle. Right side had the UTD. She moved from side to side accordingly. She's had this set up since late december. The only difference from then is now is that I moved her hide off the UTD (had the hide on there since my room gets cooler in the winter). However, the hide has been moved since march, at least.

What she does most of the day.

Someone on the other forum requested pictures of her back half. Figured I'd post them here as well. Best I could do at the moment. She's actually not cruising and sitting still.

 

[cornsnakeforsale_com]

If she's getting close to laying eggs it should be pretty obvious (to the trained eye I'm sure you're saying.) You might pick her up and let her body hang down and see if she's just really thick toward the end. You can also look for scales that are fairly separated cause she's big. I'm sure you can find pictures on these forums of obviously gravid vs not.

They do say they can retain sperm for some period of time, I think there might be debate on how long.

You can put an egg box in just to be safe (she'll probably love it anyway).

 

[Raptor]

She seems to be about the same. I checked her over on Friday. I've browsed around online and she doesn't match up with any of the pictures. As for the egg box, I don't know if I can find anything big enough for her. Might see if the ice cream box is still around. Anything I can use as a makeshift material for the eggbox? I don't have the money to go buy anything.

 

[reptile_jones]

1st thing when look at the photo's is that i don't think missing a few meals would hurt your corn. That 1st photo were you can see her tail. It look like she may be a bit over weight to me.

Cage cruising

1st thing here is the cage setup. She may not feel safe in her cage with no place to hide. The hide in the cage is to small for your corn. You could also add some fake plants in their too.

The other thing i would fix is that you have the cage in front of a window. That is a big No No for any pet. Movement or even smells from outside could also be why she is cage cruising. Also the sun light coming in from out side could also be the problem.

 

[Raptor]

The window isn't a window. It has a piece of wood that's been glued onto it from the outside. Its been like this since early winter with no plans of removing it. I've been wanting to get her a larger hide but again, no money (poor college student, heh). What I'm going to do with the ice cream bucket I mentioned (it's the square one gallon type) is figure out something to cover it with to make it dark, cut a hole in the side and use that as a egg box. Then watch her behavior for awhile.

I do have two windows open with fans on either end of my room (15 x 7) and she's in the middle. Unfortunately, those can't be closed since I'll fry. Mom has this nasty habit of leaving the AC off until she can't stand the heat (usually upper 90s).

 

[Cattsy]

As far as cheap/free hides, the ice cream bucket is a good one Just put the lid on it, cut a hole in it.

One of mine right now has a gift box that I got from the dollar store for $2... they had all sorts of sizes. I just cut a hole in the side and plopped it upside down with the lid on top

THere is another thread on here about cheap/creative hides

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100278&highlight=cheap+hide

Just have to get creative and know it doesn't take alot of money.

Good luck with her though, hope it sorts itself out soon!

T

 

[Raptor]

Well, I cut a hole in the bottom of the ice cream box and put it upside down with the lid on the bottom. I also put in some bedding so she wouldn't be on straight plastic. She immediately went to investigate it. Slithered around it before making her way in. Right now, she's partially in it, partially draped over it, and examining her new higher up surroundings.

 

[Caryl]

She *could* well be gravid. Female corns have been known to store viable sperm for at least one year. You say that she was with two males in August, and had been previously bred. It wouldn't be at all strange for her to lay eggs, some of which may prove viable.

Here's a trick to try if the snake will cooperate. Put a light cloth like a silk scarf or a thin sheet over your hand. Let her slither slowly over your hand, and you may feel a series of lumps in her posterior third. Some have likened the sensation to a string of large beads or oversized pearls. If she is gravid, you need to put a nest box in her viv. At this point I would personally assume she is until she either lays resumes her normal behavior.

When did she last shed? I ask because the usual sequence of events is a pre-lay shed followed by eggs in around 10 days. This isn't hard-and-fast, but it's a good guideline.

 

[Raptor]

I have lightly felt of her and felt nothing. I'll have to retry with the cloth though. She last shed back in April. Around April 20th or so. She's not showing any signs of wanting to shed again.

 

[wretchedprocess]

Just a note: I made my hide boxes out of spare cardboard, and my guys love them. (They have 2 each, one cool-side and one warm-side.) Not so much cheap as free!

 

[Sweetseraph]

She's either overweight or gravid, but it's hard to tell which from the pictures. In the second last picture, I see a lump, which I'm assuming is not food, since she hasn't eaten. I can't tell what part of her body that is, but if it's the last third, that could indicate she's gravid. Whether or not she has retained sperm, she might lay eggs anyways. If she sheds again soon, you could assume that might be a pre-lay shed and give her a lay box. You can actually just use the ice cream tub and take out the shavings and add moist paper towels. If you can get some moss, that would be better, because with paper towels, you'll need to constantly be wetting them again. If you convert the ice cream container, just give her another hide to replace it.

 

[Nanci]

I think your snake could benefit from a more enriched environment. I would suggest first a layer of aspen deep enough to burrow into- 3 to 4 inches. Then a variety of hides- you can fit three in there. Then a water bowl big enough to get into. Then take one of those six-foot wire vines from Petco/smart and scrunsh it up and lay it along the back wall and drape it over the hides. Finally, you could put a small suction cup vine on each end.

 

[Nanci]

And I've had females refuse food at various times of the year, for no apparent reason. Snakes that have nevr been bred. One went four months, as an adult. Then one day they just eat again.

 

[Raptor]

That lump has to do with her being partially arched because of the waterbowl. I probably could have gotten better pictures but at the time I was scrambling back and forth from the computer to help with dinner. If she does another shed, I'll swap the shavings for the paper towels. It's unlikely that I'll be able to get any moss. I mentioned to my parents that she might be wanting to lay eggs. I got synchronized eye rolling.

The problem with adding to her environment is two fold. First, I have no money. What money I get, $20 every two weeks (if I'm lucky) goes towards food at college. Additionally, the nearest pet store is about 45 minutes away and mom is usually too busy to take me. There is a more local privately owned store, however, I refuse to shop there after finding two quite dead young ball pythons (not surprising since the snakes rarely had waterbowls and when they did, the bowls were empty).

Basically, if it can't be gotten at walmart, there's a fairly good chance I won't be able to get it. Parents overrule what I want. Were it up to me, I'd have everything in racks/tubs.

 

[wretchedprocess]

But you *can* get it at Wal-Mart! Hides can be empty boxes of the appropriate size that aren't being used any more. I *know* they have suction cups. And I bet they have some kind of fake vine in their craft section, or somewhere. I think I've seen fake flowers there. I got my fake vines at Michael's, because they were cheaper there than at the pet store. They still cost $8, but I expect that with a little ingenuity and only a few dollars, you can come up with something that will work. A bigger bowl can be picked up at a thrift store or a yard sale for a dollar. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that you have to buy things specifically marketed for reptiles. I don't think anything in Worm's cage but the aspen bedding (get it in bulk in the rodent section-- much cheaper, but make sure it's just aspen) actually came from a pet store!

 

[Caryl]

It doesn't take money to add to the environment. Pet store hides are cute and fine, but they're relatively expensive. Snakes are perfectly happy with things we all have around the house and throw away virtually every day. Examples: cereal boxes, (butter/margarine boxes for smaller snakes); cloth such as a clean rag or an old shirt; cardboard tubes from paper towels, wrapping paper, aluminum foil, plastic wrap, etc.; a sheet of cardboard; fake plants (use hot glue to cover any sharp places); ceramic doo-dads; hardwood branches from the yard (baked in the oven at 200 F for 20 minutes to kill bugs); rocks.

There's no need to spend money to give the snake variation in her environment. Another benefit of many of the things I mentioned is that if the item is soiled it can be thrown away and easily replaced.

I concur with Nanci, except that I would caution against a water bowl big enough for the snake to fit into while there is a possibility of her laying eggs.

How much and how often was this snake being fed prior to her refusal? How much is she usually handled?

 

[Raptor]

The craft section is basically limited to stickers, some paints, etc. It's really sad. It used to be a lot bigger. I think the next town over might have a bigger selection, but I'm not sure. I wish walmart sold aspen Would make things a lot easier. All they sell is pine, unfortunately.

I have no idea when I can get everything. I don't have much money to my name at the moment. However, Morana has calmed down since I put in the egg box/hide. She's currently lounging in her water bowl. It's amazing how much she's grown. She used to be able to curl up in her bowl. I can probably get a bigger bowl. There's an abandoned house on the property with plenty of of dishes. I'll head up there tomorrow and see if I can find something.

She gets fed once a week on the weekend. Usually saturday. I don't handle her all that much due to being busy. If I have a friend come over (rarely) who's never really seen a snake, I'll pull her out and let them see her.

 

[Caryl]

Given her girth I'd back off to feeding every 14 days. Adult corns are healthy on a 10-14 day feeding interval. Once per week isn't out of the question if a snake is breeding or very active. If your girl isn't gravid she's overweight. If you're too busy to handle her regularly be sure to give her plenty of options for exploring inside her viv. You don't have to spend any money at all, and it'll be good for the snake.

I forgot to mention another favorite environmental enrichment "tool" many people have at home. Legos or similar building blocks can be used to construct some mighty interesting hides or "playgrounds." Some snakes are more active than others. Many large ones - especially if they're used to frequent meals - just lie around and wait for food to show up. These snakes will benefit from less frequent meals in more ways than just the caloric reduction. They're likely to go on the prowl when they don't get a meal as expected. This isn't animal abuse; it's promoting exercise and exactly what happens in nature.

 

[Nanci]

I concur with Nanci, except that I would caution against a water bowl big enough for the snake to fit into while there is a possibility of her laying eggs.

Except it is unlikely that hatchlings would be affordable, so it might be merciful to have the eggs laid in water...

If you PM me your address I will send your snake a care package.

You know what's funny, speaking of snake enrichment, I saw an ad in Reptiles yesterday for The Snake Activity Tree. "The Snake Activity Tree is the next generation reptile activity system designed to give consumers an artistic yet functional snake tree that will not compromise a room's decor. The Snake Activity Tree gives the consumer an alternative to the current systems. It brings the outside in for the snakes, heightening their sense of smell and hearing with the natural tree and rustle of the silk leaves. The height of the tree allows the snake to climb and stretch. The SnakeActivity Tree has an acrylic enclosure for feedinf. For more information, contact Pet Tree Houses."

Um, yeah, so that's directed at consumers like me who spoil their pets, but even I am not a big enough sucker to buy that! I wonder how much it costs. Wait...BWAAAHAAAHHAAAAA! $499!!!!!!!!!! OMG!! That's funny!!!

 

[Raptor]

I'm not worried about her going off food at all. I was more concerned with the food refusal couple with the cruising/lid pushing. I have been eyeballing her wondering if she was on the heavy side. Most of the information I know about corns I've learned from reading various caresheets. haven't found any that said "an overweight corn looks like this". How would I go about putting her on a diet, as it were?

I've already mentioned to mom about the suggestions. I read somewhere that you can take limbs from outside, put them in the over for a certain amount of time to kill parasites/nasties and use those for decoration/exercise.

What's the appropriate temperature/duration for heating? I have access to a wide variety of trees as well. Hickory, maple, oak, pear, and a dead apple tree. Which of these would be most appropriate?
------

Nanci, I'm half thinking she's on the chunky side, and not actually gravid. Even if she did lay fertile eggs, I doubt I'd be able to hatch them anyway. An old chicken egg incubator isn't really the best..At least mine isn't. Always had to keep the bottom full of water to keep the humidity up.

Also, the tree thing..Could easily build one for cheap if you know your way around powertools. Couple years back, my step-dad build a bird perch for the cockatiel out of pvc pipe. Wrapped it with some rope, hung some toils, and voila. Instant $200 stand for about $20.

I'll message you my address, then I have to scoot off to class. Three hour summer class, hurrah!