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?? for Hurley/Connie re: 2nd clutches

S

SnakeNutt

New member
Hi, Connie. I remember seeing a thread recently about how you suggested a possible way to avoid 2nd-clutch eggs being fertilized by retained sperm from the sire of the 1st clutch (if you're breeding the female to a different male for the second clutch). I believe you said something about exposing the females to 90-degree heat for a "few hours" in order to kill off the retained sperm. Could you please elaborate, since I'd like to try this for two of my females. Both females laid eggs late last week -- one on 5/19 and one on 5/20. The 5/19 one is very opaque, and the other is starting to go opaque.

1) At what point would you expose the female to heat, before or after the post-lay shed, assuming you'd like to breed her soon after the shed?

2) Exactly how would you "heat up" the female? I have a small closet area that I could heat with a ceramic heater and put each female in a small sweater box inside the room so that they'd be exposed to ambient heat. Or, do you think it would work better to put smallish boxes on a large heat mat (keeping an eye on the temps, of course) to provide belly heat? If the intent is to kill off any retained sperm, do you think belly heat would work best?

3) How many hours are a "few hours"? Two or three, or overnight?

Thanks for your help. I realize that you haven't actually tried this yet, but your educated guesses will give me more peace of mind than me just experimenting on my own.

Liz
 
Chuck and I have talked about this at some length, but haven't yet experimented with it. This year I wanted all second clutches to be arranged to show me how much sperm retention I should expect in my clutches with my breeding methods and conditions.

Fatal temps have not been 100% ascertained that I know of, but I do know that many will die at temps not much more than 100 degrees for any length of time (such as overnight in some instances). I know from personal experience that if my snakes get up much over 86-88 without a cool spot, that regurgitation is expected in the post meal period for many sensitive ones. That gives us a pretty narrow window. I know that you can create an artificial fever for these guys with respiratory infections in the high 80's/low 90's trying to help them overcome infection while stunting bacterial growth. I've also heard that fertility in males drops dramatically in the upper 80's. This is where the temp range average of 90 degrees came from.

Theorectically, from the above information, you would expect sperm to be greatly hindered if you can raise the ambiant temps to 90 degrees for some length of time. What's the length of time required? We don't know. I wouldn't think an hour would really be long enough because that barely gives time for the inside of the snake to raise up to the room temperature. 3 to 4 may do the job and is a nice time frame where you can watch the temps close to avoid overheating. I think I would be way too worried about trying to go overnight, because it's such a narrow window to hold them in. 100 degrees death, 85 and under, no effect.

I think ideally I would wait a week since the last meal and put the females in a well ventilated box with a small dish of water that they could not use to soak in, put a probe in the box, and raise the room temps (I use a fan on a space heater that resembles a radiator) to 90 degrees. I would then monitor frequently over several hours, then turn the heat off and let them cool back to normal (82 in my house) overnight. Then I'd put back in the big water bowl hide.

That's what I would try first, anyway. As you said, I don't know of anyone who has tried this for prevention of sperm retention. Obviously we'll need larger numbers than just a snake or two to even know if it works, but I imagine we'll know more in a few years. It's going to be one of those "diagnosis by rule out" situations. How many snakes not having mixed clutches do we need to prove it? How many have sperm retention anyway? Your guess is as good as mine, but the evidence is going to be anecdotal at best for some time. Just because none of the trial snakes have mixed clutches/proven sperm retention doesn't necessarily mean we've done a darn thing...but it's worth a shot. :shrugs:
 
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