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Gaia Multi-Issue = Scale Rot + Breeding Behavior?

Kate

I Love Herps!
Hey guys,
I need a hug & some advice from this amazing community!
First off, I'd like to apologize for the length if this post, I am rather verbose on a good day, & I get down right obsessive when it concerns my babies, esp Gaia.
I will try to bold (or otherwise denote) important questions & points as we go.

Here is the post of when I first rescued Gaia:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132533

As of 8-20-2013, she was ~50" & 390 grams.

As of 4-9-2014, she is ~52" & 715g*
Her weigh in before this was ~651g, I cannot find record of it ANYWHERE, much to my chagrin, it was anytime Jan-March. (UGH)

She is ~4-5 years old.

Last shed was during Christmas break.

Basic Husbandry -
Exo Terra 36"Wx18"Dx18"H*
*She LOVES this tank, she explores every inch of it, & I find her sleeping everywhere, she is definitely a corn snake that enjoys room​
Cool Side: 70-76F*
*Depending on time of day/night & season, never ever falls under/over this range​
Hot Spot: directly over UTH ~90F(never over 95F)*
*Gaia & I fought over this a long time, & her behavior indicates she prefers ~90F, rather than the typically suggested 80-85F.​
3-4" Aspen
2+ cool hides
1+ warm hide
2 lg fake plants
1 hammock
1 lg Water bowl on cool side
1+ wood elements



Feeding Routine-
She is always fed in my bathtub.
I have been feeding f/t small rats from Petco since I brought her home, as these fit the ~1.5 times the thickest part of the snake feeding rule.
When I first got her & she was emaciated & weak, I fed ~5 days, stretching out to every 5-7, then she has been on 7-10 days since January, & in March I tried to stretch to 10-14 day interval.
She doesn't seem a fan of ~14 days, so the current plan is to feed ~10 days, alternating between the small rats & the much smaller adult mice each week, to avoid obesity - with the higher fat content in rats.
Any thoughts on that feeding regime?

Abnormalities-
The week of March 16, she started showing heightened activity, progressing to rubbing her nose on the screen top, which she has never done.
Frankly, her behavior is consistent with what is reported in males during breeding season; no aggression, but constant roaming, nose rubbing, & food refusal.
I know she is not a male, as she laid a clutch of slugs in May 2012, & Summer 2013, though she has never been bred.*
March 21(last ingestion), I was leaving for the weekend & decided to feed her, in case the increased activity was hunting from hunger, though it was a little early. She ate a small rat.
April 3 (+13 days since last ingestion), she was offered a small rat & refused it. She has never to my knowledge refused a meal before this.*
*exception being while she was in my exes care, fed live, & the mice died en route, she refused on 2 separate occasions in 2012 when that happened​
April 7 (+17 days since last ingestion) she was offered a f/t adult mouse & refused.
It's been almost 20 days since last ingestion. I am fully aware snakes can go far longer without eating & be perfectly healthy, I have simply never had this animal refuse food.

Is this abnormal behavior & food refusal from an urge to breed, though she is female?
Could she once again be gravid with slugs?
Could being gravid cause these behaviors?

I'm going to monitor her weight frequently, I do believe it has taken an odd jump in the past month or so.

*********************************************************

Enrichment -
Gaia's enclosure is rearranged with every major cleaning (every few months).
Gaia is handled very often, allowed supervised roaming in the living room, on my bed, & outside.

At the beginning of each handling session, I place her in the grass outside (weather/temperature permitting) within ~5 minutes, she relieves herself, & I can handle her without fear of excrement!
:D I rather like having a potty trained snake! :laugh:
When temperatures are appropriate, I supervise her in the grass & leaf mold in the yard for extended sessions ~20 - 40 minutes.

No chemicals are used on the yard, chickens & dogs run the yard, & may defecate in the area (NOT when Gaia is out there). There are also tons of mole hills.

She LOVES rubbing her head into & under grass blades, dirt, & leaves; which is why she gets a deep layer of aspen in her enclosure, she likes diving through it like a sea serpent.


Scale Rot

Given her past neglect, & my obsessive tendencies with Gaia, I regularly examine her entire body for any abnormalities.



March 23 is when I first noticed indications of scale rot, 3 spots ventrally on her scutes, in the first ~3" behind her head.




April 7 more spots have appeared, still on her ventral aspect, reaching ~1/3 down her body.

Treatment -
My Chlorhexidine solution (2% Chlorhexidine gluconate) finally arrived today.
Proper Dilution is 1 ounce(2 tablespoons) per gallon of water.
Per an exotic DVM's instructions, I shall treat her with the dilute every few days, drying her before putting her back in her cage.
Plan on repeating at least 2 weeks past visible marks.
Any opinions?


Sanitation -
Cage: empty & spray with vinegar-water solution, let sit, then wipe & repeat.
Plastic Decor: vinegar-water solution scrub; set on foil in direct sun
Water Bowl: dishwasher, top rack; set on foil in direct sun
Wood: vinegar-water solution scrub; bake in oven @ 250F for ~30 min; repeat
Any practices you would recommend adding/changing?

Hospital Cage -
Single layer paper towel substrate
water bowl: doubles as cool side hide
tupperware humid hide (filled with damp paper towels) on warm side of tank
cardboard/otherwise disposable additional hide(s)
Any recommendations for her hospital tank?
How often should I change out paper towel?
How often should I sanitize cage & plastic accessories?

I plan on continuing hospital enclosure at least until visible marks recede.

Possible Causes/How to Avoid Another Recurrence -
With her heightened activity, she was slopping water into the aspen.
Feb/March had several wet days, & if temperatures were good, I still took her outside to wander the yard.
Should I avoid her outdoor 'walks' altogether?
Should I avoid the outdoors on days with wet ground?


Any comments, thoughts, opinions, etc are greatly appreciated!

As thanks,please enjoy this picture of Gaia being silly while she was hitching a ride as I did laundry:
 
Hey guys, scouring currently in progress!

I used a bleach dilution for all the decor, & I have rinsed & rinsed & soaked, but still swear I smell bleach.
I definitely still smell it on my hands, am I imagining it?
Everything is sitting on foil in the sun, & the wood will go into the oven once it is only sightly damp.
My poor Crestie got his plants taken, too. He's up on one of his tubes hugging it & looking around in a rather bewildered manner :p

I'm gonna go scrub my hands with dishsoap before I tackle the cage itself & Gaia, don't want to hold her smelling of bleach at ALL.
Any input or advice would be welcome!
 
...but still swear I smell bleach.
I definitely still smell it on my hands, am I imagining it?

Nose hairs can sometimes "capture" scent molecules in the nose, leading to a prolonged odor even after the cause is removed. So probably not crazy or imagining it. You will probably continue to smell bleach throughout most of the day.
 
A shower finally fixed things! Thanks for replying :)

Gaia took her chlorhexidine treatment with aplomb, no defensive behavior at any time, even though I was lightly pinning her head for a good portion:
There's a scale rot spot on the medial ventral aspect of the mandible I wanted to get thoroughly.
Here's a short video showing her patience with me.



She looked at me like I'm a real crook when I put her in her hospital quarters, & went right to her favorite hammock - which wasn't there.



She then sprawled across the entire cage with her head resting on the thermostat probe & knocked out for over an hour. I found that adorable, though curious, as I'd expect a corn to take shelter to sleep, & not sleep out in the open, especially in new surroundings?

She wasn't alone in her torture today, though. My crested gecko was also due for a cleaning, so his enclosure got complete sanitation & brand new pipe insulation 'branches'. If looks could kill when I took his plants out ...

 
4-12-2014: 703 g

She enjoys her moist hide



However, she dislikes the hospital cage, as a whole.



I put in an old cap, & it was met with approval :3



Why isn't she shedding?
A common symptom of scale rot is frequent shedding, & she hasn't shed since ~Jan

Her scales FEEL close to shed, but they have for 2 weeks

I'd feel much better if she'd just shed already!
 
I'd expect her to be shedding soon. Maybe the food refusal is part of that.

I take my snakes outside all the time, and have never got scale rot. I don't think that has anything to do with it. It looks like a very mild case.
 
Thank you for your response, Nanci!

My mom has been trying to push the idea that the moist outdoor trips were to blame.
I simply think I ended her treatment when I first rescued her a little too soon, & this is it resurfacing.

It has climbed to her lips, which I find a little worrisome, this is last night:





The inside of her mouth is unaffected, as of now. she is such a dear, she lets me do everything I need to & beyond!
 
It's been over a month since I last updated this thread, & I am still baffled.

April 22 - mouse offered & refused (my chickens were thrilled)

May 5 - mouse offered & refused, then I placed her & the food item back into her cage & within minutes she'd consumed it.


I don't understand, she has always been fed out of her tank,& for the past 9 months, fed readily in my bathtub.

Far more important though: there has been NO shed

She has been getting long water soaks, then chlorhexidine soak/scrubs 1-2x/week; she often soaks free choice in her water bowl & has a tupperware moist hide (which she prefers to roll around the cage).

I DON'T understand why my baby isn't shedding?! :headbang:

She has felt like she needed to shed since I began this thread;
her scales crease when she knots herself up - as if she is either dehydrated or about to shed, & I KNOW she is hydrated;
She has flakes sticking up in random areas, which are typically easily removed, but don't bring along any extra shed;
her scale rot lesions are more numerous & more severe;
she often rubs the side of her face against surfaces as if she wants to shed - to no avail.

Can a snake have an entire shed retention?

What can I do to entice a shed?

Should I take her to the vet again?


I am at a loss, & this girl is my world. Please, any advice is welcome.
 
her scale rot lesions are more numerous & more severe;

I wouldn't even question it, I would get her to the vet as soon as possible. I can't believe that she is doing good when there are more lesions and they are getting worse.
 
The Cat : She last shed early Dec, then mid-January

zazoo31 : That's what I'm starting to think; I've been following my vet's instructions, & was told this would be a long process, but I'm getting more & more antsy.
 
I don't know why I didn't see this post before, BIGGEST hugs to you!

I do rescues too, so I am totally empathetic with your concerns. I would find another vet if you can, a second opinion never hurts and it has been too long in between sheds, especially with the problems.

This spring was especially weird for corns, all of mine went on a hunger strike and had weird behavior. I lost my Snow (a newer rescue) because of not eating and she needed to lay slugs, I had no idea and when it finally dawned on me to make a lay box she climbed in, laid 12 tiny slugs, crawled out and passed away.

Keep us updated on her condition, I'll send positive snake thoughts your way!
 
smigon - I'm sorry to hear about your rescue girl!

I just weighed my darling again: 663g
I'm not happy.
I offered her a food item, so far no dice.

My vet is super cool, I'm trying to decide if I should shoot her an e-mail first, asking for recommendations, or if I should just go back in to her, she hasn't seen Gaia since the very beginning.

My amazing boyfriend knows how freaked out I am, & has offered to pay for any treatment, since I'm low on funds, at the moment.

One good thing, I got to take Gaia in ~2 weeks ago & radiograph her for school, so I know for a fact she has no slugs in there! At least it gives me one less thing to worry about *sigh*

I need a hug, & I need Gaia to be healthy and SHED!
She is the first reptile I owned, & is precious beyond measure to me.

Yesterday, I gave her back her sanitized half log hide, hoping maybe the weight & bark side would aide in shedding, no dice so far. She is as jubilant as I think a snake can be, swirling around/over under the thing, a part of her has been touching it every time I've checked on her, since she got it back.
Makes me feel really guilty for having her tank in hospital conditions, I know how much she loves her permanent enrichment items.

I'm confused, I'm scared, & I'm in the middle of a depression low, which really isn't helping things.
 
Since she has lost weight she really doesn't need to shed, I really wouldn't stress on it right now. I would email your vet (free advice!) and see what she says.

Now, go sit in a hot bubble bath with a glass of wine and candles, put your favorite fun songs on and get happy.

If you wanna drive a few hours west you can come to my house and we can lay in the back yard and my husband can be our pool boy and bring us margaritas while we paddle under the waterfall. Ahh, the joys of summer!
 
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