Genetics prediction?

[_Sam_]

So a clutch of 17 eggs perfect (well, once has a sort of 'clear' strip on it, but it's still white and puffed out),white were layed on September 1st. It's pretty cool they were layed on that day, it's so much easier to track how long the eggs have been incubating.
Anyways, the father of the clutch is a creamsicle, and the mom is a snow. I'm really clueless about genetics, so could someone please maybe make a prediction as to what my little babies will look like? Will it just be a few creamsicles here, some snows there, or will there be maybe some other thiings mixed in? As you can see I'm already getting anxious...I was at a reptile show today and had to hold back because I know I have 17 babies coming soon. It's my first clutch and I can't wait!

 

[susang]

Congrats on your first clutch. Sorry cant predict as I use Mick's predicter and it doesn't do hybrids.

 

[Fizzlefry22]

You should get all creamsicles(amels) het for anery. As far as predicting goes, a creamsicle is just considered an amel. A rootbeer is a corn with emoryi blood in it. A creamsicle is the amelanistic version of a rootbeer.

:cheers:

 

[susang]

I think a creamsicle is an amel and emoryi mix which makes it a hybrid in my book, :shrugs: susan

 

[batwrangler]

So a clutch of 17 eggs perfect (well, once has a sort of 'clear' strip on it, but it's still white and puffed out),white were layed on September 1st. It's pretty cool they were layed on that day, it's so much easier to track how long the eggs have been incubating.
Anyways, the father of the clutch is a creamsicle, and the mom is a snow. I'm really clueless about genetics, so could someone please maybe make a prediction as to what my little babies will look like? Will it just be a few creamsicles here, some snows there, or will there be maybe some other thiings mixed in? As you can see I'm already getting anxious...I was at a reptile show today and had to hold back because I know I have 17 babies coming soon. It's my first clutch and I can't wait!

Because mom is a snow, they will all at least be het for amel and anery.

Creamsicle can mean an amel emoryi hybrid, in which case you should get a bunch of amels (if your creamsicle is het for anery you may also get snows).
But creamsicle can also mean any emoryi hybrid regardless of morph.

Do you know anything about your creamsicle's parents?

 

[susang]

This is always a hot topic, but know matter what the snakes must be listed hybrid or creamsicle. Even if they look like a snow they are still hybrid.

 

[batwrangler]

This is always a hot topic, but know matter what the snakes must be listed hybrid or creamsicle. Even if they look like a snow they are still hybrid.

Yup. I should have made that clearer: the whole clutch will be creamsicle=emoryi hybrid, and if dad is an amel creamsicle, they should all be amel creamsicles het for "snow creamsicle". If dad is a non-amel creamsicle=emoryi hybrid then the clutch may all be "normal creamsicles" or it may be a mix of creamsicle morphs depending on what he is het for.

I bet that's clear as mud now.

 

[susang]

Yup. I should have made that clearer: the whole clutch will be creamsicle=emoryi hybrid, and if dad is an amel creamsicle, they should all be amel creamsicles het for "snow creamsicle". If dad is a non-amel creamsicle=emoryi hybrid then the clutch may all be "normal creamsicles" or it may be a mix of creamsicle morphs depending on what he is het for.

I bet that's clear as mud now.

I gotta ya, so clear I can see ummmm :grin01: susan

 

[Fizzlefry22]

Yup. I should have made that clearer: the whole clutch will be creamsicle=emoryi hybrid, and if dad is an amel creamsicle, they should all be amel creamsicles het for "snow creamsicle". If dad is a non-amel creamsicle=emoryi hybrid then the clutch may all be "normal creamsicles" or it may be a mix of creamsicle morphs depending on what he is het for.

I bet that's clear as mud now.

Almost. The whole clutch will be hybrids. Yes. But a 'creamsicle' IS the amel version of a 'rootbeer'. A rootbeer IS a normal corn x emoryi cross.

So... creamsicle (amel-rootbeer) x snow (amel,anery) will get you an entire clutch of creamsicles (amel-rootbeer) het for anery.

Basically, rootbeer is the trade name for a corn x emoryi hybrid. Creamsicle is the trade name given to 'amel-rootbeer'.

:cheers:

 

[susang]

Although the mud is clear, lol. This is how a breeder "Genetics Design" describes a Creamsicle: Creamsicle
These are created by crossing emoryi with amelanistic corns.

Here is a link to this website I love his descriptions,
http://www.genetic-designs.com/

 

[batwrangler]

This is always a hot topic, but know matter what the snakes must be listed hybrid or creamsicle. Even if they look like a snow they are still hybrid.

Yup. I should have made that clearer: the whole clutch will be creamsicle=emoryi hybrid, and if dad is an amel creamsicle, they should all be amel creamsicles het for "snow creamsicle". If dad is a non-amel creamsicle=emoryi hybrid then the clutch may all be "normal creamsicles" or it may be a mix of creamsicle morphs depending on what he is het for.

I bet that's clear as mud now.

 

[batwrangler]

Almost. The whole clutch will be hybrids. Yes. But a 'creamsicle' IS the amel version of a 'rootbeer'. A rootbeer IS a normal corn x emoryi cross.

So... creamsicle (amel-rootbeer) x snow (amel,anery) will get you an entire clutch of creamsicles (amel-rootbeer) het for anery.

Basically, rootbeer is the trade name for a corn x emoryi hybrid. Creamsicle is the trade name given to 'amel-rootbeer'.

:cheers:

I'm going from Charles Pritzel's "Cornsnake Morph Guide 2007" pp. 108-109. He agrees with you about the rootbeer as a "recently caught on [name] for corn/emoryi crosses not expressing any genetic traits" but also references the older double usage of "creamsicle". I think going forward a lot of people will adopt rootbeer and keep creamsicle for the amels as it leads to less confusion.

 

[_Sam_]

Haha wow, that's a lot of information! Unfortunately I have no information on the dad's lineage whatsoever...Since these babies are most likely hybrids, what would be a good price for each hatchling? I know even full blooded corns are cheap, I saw a normal hatchling today for $10....very tempting!

 

[batwrangler]

Haha wow, that's a lot of information! Unfortunately I have no information on the dad's lineage whatsoever...Since these babies are most likely hybrids, what would be a good price for each hatchling? I know even full blooded corns are cheap, I saw a normal hatchling today for $10....very tempting!

They ARE hybrids because their dad is a hybrid, so you should be sure to tell that to people when you are selling them. Price will depend on what the babies look like and what your local market will bear. Sorry I can't be more specific.

 

[TandJ]

Well Sue, here is another part of the hot topic you really need to know.. A lot of Emoryi blood is present in "pure" Corns today.. Want a start? Candycanes are hybrids, even though many generations have passed without the influence of emoryi, but it is the emoryi influence that created the light background animals to begin with..

As much as the purists seem to think there are totally pure lines of corns there are the skeptics like me ..

I don't disagree that creamsicles are hybrids. Its the irony behind the whole thing, when it has been known for years that emoryi was breed into corn lines to get better eatters, larger and even more robust corns.. I simple am miffed about the conclusions the general public seems to make that most corns have to be pure... You can do some reading in Kathy Loves book about how Emoryi was used in a few projects.. Thank you Kathy for your honesty..

Of course no one seems to bat an eye about the Upper Keys being a different animal.. Smaller size, checkers being almost non existant ( very similair to an Emoryi animal ), side patterns partially diffused and of course the change of the Genious ( sp? ) within the last few years.. :shrugs: :shrugs: :shrugs:

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[susang]

Haha wow, that's a lot of information! Unfortunately I have no information on the dad's lineage whatsoever...Since these babies are most likely hybrids, what would be a good price for each hatchling? I know even full blooded corns are cheap, I saw a normal hatchling today for $10....very tempting!

I don't know where you shop but I want to go there $10.00 for a normal, is very cheap. I would suggest you go to some of the big breeders web sites and see what they get for Creamsicles.

 

[Fizzlefry22]

If you sell them, just be sure to let your perspective buyers know that they are creamsicles (hybrids). While I'm not the fondest of creams, there are a lot of people who are.

:cheers:

 

[TandJ]

Haha wow, that's a lot of information! Unfortunately I have no information on the dad's lineage whatsoever...Since these babies are most likely hybrids, what would be a good price for each hatchling?

A good price is what ever you think is good.. Frankly, the Rootbeers I have now I value them at $40 and that is probably cheap..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[susang]

Well Sue, here is another part of the hot topic you really need to know.. A lot of Emoryi blood is present in "pure" Corns today.. Want a start? Candycanes are hybrids, even though many generations have passed without the influence of emoryi, but it is the emoryi influence that created the light background animals to begin with..

As much as the purists seem to think there are totally pure lines of corns there are the skeptics like me ..

I don't disagree that creamsicles are hybrids. Its the irony behind the whole thing, when it has been known for years that emoryi was breed into corn lines to get better eatters, larger and even more robust corns.. I simple am miffed about the conclusions the general public seems to make that most corns have to be pure... You can do some reading in Kathy Loves book about how Emoryi was used in a few projects.. Thank you Kathy for your honesty..

Of course no one seems to bat an eye about the Upper Keys being a different animal.. Smaller size, checkers being almost non existant ( very similair to an Emoryi animal ), side patterns partially diffused and of course the change of the Genious ( sp? ) within the last few years.. :shrugs: :shrugs: :shrugs:

Regards.. Tim of T and J

I don't disagree with you at all and almost sent you a pm to contribute to this thread. After the last time this came up and the person who said "I wouldn't let a hybrid on my property" I was scared to answer this thread. I have a Creamsicle male, high yellow, emoryi head. I would like to breed him to an amel next year but was told I would always have to list the babies as hybrid because of retained sperm :shrugs: . Poor guy needs a friend. I would always list offspring as hybrid but a year later ( year after I used him), I'm not sure. I must admit I'm not understnading the rootbeer thing though. I know rootbeers are hybrid but not that creamsicles come from a rootbeer. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, gawd knows at my age anything is hard for me to understand :grin01: susan

 

[TandJ]

Creamsicles and rootbeers are the same thing..

Creamsicle just are Emoryi hybirds that carry the corn snakes version of amel..

Rootbeers just a "normal corn" like critter.. Depending on how many generations have passed into the corn crossings..


Regards.. Tim of T and J