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Getting a newborn to eat

smigon

smigon

Old enough to know better
I just got three new kids from Damon (I promised I would be a repeat buyer, I try to keep my promises!) and he has held a couple for me, each about 8g. He also told his wife (he was at work when I was in his area) to offer me a beautiful orchid that is kinked, of course I couldn't turn down a corn in need, but she is only 3-4g.

The other two are 8g each, they gobbled a whole pinkie each and wanted more. I offered little Kiki the pinky in three pieces, the head, middle and back, put it on a deli lid in the cage, no interest. I guided her head toward the food like I do with all my pickier eaters, she showed interest but seemed more repulsed than wanting a sample (hell, I would send the mouse back and order a filet and lobster tail too if that's what I was offered!). I cut the bigger piece in half, put it all in the deli cup overnight, still nothing.

How long before I wait to try again? I wouldn't be worried except for her size. I know about the Ivory and Dawn soap ideas, I will try those next, but everything I read seems to be for adult corns, I couldn't find anything on infants.

Any other thoughts on feeding tiny babies?
 
Some people feed tails from medium mice as it is a lot thinner for them. I think they cut it up in a few pieces. You can also try all the methods listed on Nancy's private forum
 
I'd give her 5-6 days before trying again...as Nanci said, a teeny red might be a good option. My fussy eaters like them boiled, which smells awful to me but apparently not to the snakes!

(also, we need a picture!)
 
I'd try boiled, I guess. And maybe try teasing her if that doesn't work? It's always easier with boiled. Maybe try teasing with just a head, to start, if you don't have teeny reds.
 
I have that the orchid hatched on 2014-08-01. It had refused several times on live and frozen thawed. I might have gotten a tuna scenting in, I don't remember. But yeah, try a few of the tricks and see what works :)
 
That didn't work the other night, so tonight I went in with one pink head, nada. One pink head w/tuna juice, nada. Boiling water over the rest of the pinky, nada. Boiling water over 1/3 of the pinky cut across the midsection, we will see in the morning.

Oh, I am starting to stress! She is very curious, bright eyed, and absolutely adorable, I SO want this to work for her, I found some long tweezers so I can try teasing.

In between feeding attempts should I just put her back in the viv with or without the deli cup?
 
How are you planning to tease her? Do you know how it works? Susan has a sticky down in her personal forum, with a guy using live mice. You don't have to use live- I don't think it matters at all. But I don't know how you would use tweezers...

I need to make a video. You hold the snake with about an inch of the head/neck free. Then jab the snake in the neck- not the face- with the pink, till it strikes. You have to be lined up right, so you land the pink's head in the snake's mouth. (Boiled works better- it's stiffer.) Once you have the pink in the mouth- freeze. Don't move your hands, don't move your head, don't let anyone walk into the room. The snake will either drop the pink (start over) or start to swallow.

If the snake starts to swallow, you have a few choices, and you have to kind of feel out the snake to see which it prefers. First, I would just hold it, let it inch ever so slowly forward, holding it above the surface you're working at.

Optionally, you can let it ease down to the surface, and either release it, or the first few times, till you know it is going to hold onto the pink, just hold the rest of the snake with your hand.

If the snake takes the pink, but starts to back up in your hand, that is usually the beginning of dropping it. You can reverse this process by gently touching the tail, and getting the snake moving forward. For this type of snake, it helps to hold it tightly, so it barely makes any forward progress.

After they have been tease fed a few times, you will be able to pick the snake up, connect with the first strike, and set it in the deli cup to finish.
 
Not certain if you thaw this way, I'd not been doing it, but try thawing a pink in straight hot water; just place in into the water. Prior to doing that I'd just let pinks thaw at room temp and then toss into a plastic bag and then heat that in hot water. I've got a butter and caramel that hatched back on June 29th that JUST ate for the first time this past Sunday. Prior to them eating I tried straight f/t pink, f/t boiled, fresh kill, and live. I finally broke down on Sept 1 and assist fed 1/3 of an adult mouse tail. The thing that blows my mind is both ate off of tweezers. 8 times out of 10 I've got to get stubborn hatchling started in separate deli cups in a warm dark location.

My frustration is that I still have 8 of 42 hatchlings still holding out. And I could have sold both the butter and caramel weeks ago had they been established - missed that window now.
 
I have a _sold_ peppermint stripe who just tease fed for the first time last week. And refused this week! I think he's blue, though. (The buyer is aware of the situation, and is not pressuring me, so I am not pressuring the baby.)

Jarrett Kime has a theory, that makes sense to me, that it is helpful to force-feed sooner rather than later, to get the gut working and keep it working. Additionally, he observes that force-fed babies start feeding themselves when they reach a certain weight- something just kicks in.

When I'm tease feeding, or force feeding, I like to give the baby a chance first. So if I am going to tease feed, I might try leaving a (boiled) pink in the bin overnight. Then, when I go to feed the rest of the clutch, I'll feed the baby as usual in the deli, maybe scenting or something. THEN if it still doesn't eat, I'll tease feed. I've had several this year start feeding overnight, and then wean to same day in the bin, and then to a deli.

I always thaw right in the water, not in a bag. Hottest tap water.

If babies are snappy at all, I can get them to feed. It's the ones who won't strike that are hard.
 
Have you tried live yet? Sometimes that is the only thing that will work. Also, sometimes scenting them with other rodent scents work, if you can get some dirty bedding from somebody who has them. The one that works best is deer mice (Peromyscus). Sometimes you can find somebody who raises them domestically, but they are not commonly bred. They are not very prolific compared to lab mice, but the dirty bedding on regular pinks will very often tempt a non feeder to eat.
 
Nanci said:
How are you planning to tease her? Do you know how it works? Susan has a sticky down in her personal forum, with a guy using live mice. You don't have to use live- I don't think it matters at all. But I don't know how you would use tweezers...
Click to expand...

I tease my bigger kids all the time, it makes them feel like they are really fighting the thing, but I usually hold the mouse by the tail. With Kiki I would pinch a small bit of the mouse and "dance" it around the snake. Is this correct?

Herps, I am going to try that next. Absolutely NONE of my scent on it, use the head as bait (she is the tiniest thing I have ever seen!) and poke her with it and dance it around in front of her using the tweezers.

Kathy, I don't have access to live down here in Maricopa, do the big box stores have them live for sale? I also don't know of anyone with a rodent except for a rabbit, would that work?

She just isn't that into me or mice!!!
 
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When I took her out of the deli today I thought she was dead! She is VERY dehydrated and skinny, but she had eaten none of the pieces I left her with overnight. She DID strike at my finger twice when I went to pick her up, so that was a welcome sight, but I grabbed the tweezers and a piece of mouse and couldn't get her to replicate the strike, just taste.

I am getting so stressed about her, I know I should wait longer in between tries but I don't think time is something we have a lot of anymore.
 
I usually have some new pinkies every few days, but that snake has already refused that several times.

If you think it's gone too far you're gonna need to try force feeding or tube feeding. I recommend Kathy's tube feeding kits. It's not fun, and a little nerve racking, but works a lot nicer than force feeding. I had good success with it last year with some non-feeders that way.

Older mouse tails are also pretty easy to feed them. Just cut off a nice length from a dead mouse and open the snakes mouth and push it in. Get it wet first and do a little twisty action and it goes right in. Then feed the whole mouse to whatever other snakey you have, they won't notice the tail is missing :)
 
I cut off tails from frozen mice, whether I' going to feed the mouse or not. If she's tiny, you might want about an inch of weanling tail. I start with the thicker end. I mean, I cut the tail off at the end, and then start with the thicker end of the tail. Not the tip.
 
I am trying a boiled head right now, if that doesn't go I will try the tails again, but sort of force feed them. That sounds like it might work, and I have no doubt she will eat once she realizes how good it feels with a full belly!
 
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