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HATS OFF to my friend MegF

Mike@boakingdom

Mike@boakingdom

The Fanatical Hobbyist
You guys that have been here a while will remember my Aztec Okeetee projects. I started with pure locality Okeetees from John Meltzer and selectively bred them for years trying to bring out Aztec/Zigzag patterning.

Here's an example of a 3rd or 4th generation offspring, (it's been a while and I don't remember off hand)
aztec-okeetee-1.jpg


I sold/gave away a lot of these to forum members & friends over the years...including all of the adults. Well Meg F. has some of my babies and has just produced a couple litters of exceptional babies and has saved me a trio...YAHOO ! ! !


Great job Meg !
:cheers:
 

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You know, I'm still having problems with that line being real weak. I'm getting real concerned, Mike, that they've been inbred too many years since the gravid female was originally collected "25 years ago."

You know how I ended up with your adults, and this year has me almost convinced that I shouldn't breed those together again. I'm going to wait one more time, maybe, and see what they do.

What are your thoughts on the effect of the number of generations these guys have been bred together from a founding pair of siblings? You worked with them longer than I have, so I figured you can glean a little more on the subject that I have already.

KJ
 
KJUN said:
You know, I'm still having problems with that line being real weak. I'm getting real concerned, Mike, that they've been inbred too many years since the gravid female was originally collected "25 years ago."
Click to expand...

Hi KJ,

I guess you and I have recieved different info. I got my original Okeetees from a guy who had bought them from John a couple years earlier. I later contacted John and inquired about their lineage. This was years ago, but I thought he told me he had started with 3.3 unrelated locality Okeetees from Terry Odegard who did a lot of collecting in the hunt club property.

I'm not sure I would label this line as being weak. The trio Meg bred this year are 2 or 3 generations beyond the adults you have, she got 2 large healthy clucthes of eggs and hatched out good solid babies. I think John is still breeding these lines too and took them another generation or two and gets some nice Aztec/Zigzags.

Either way, it wouldn't be a bad idea to pick up some F1 babies from some of the guys around here who have some pure locale wild caught Okeetees and introduce new blood to the group.

:spinner:
 
> guess you and I have recieved different info. I got my original Okeetees from a guy who had bought them from John a couple years earlier. I later contacted John and inquired about their lineage. This was years ago, but I thought he told me he had started with 3.3 unrelated locality Okeetees from Terry Odegard who did a lot of collecting in the hunt club property.

Meltzer said he started with 1.1 from 3 different clutches. Each pair he "selected" in a different direction. Each group are only descended from those 1.1 siblings from the gravid female. I posted an image of one of yours and that's the story Meltzer told me. I can't verify it, but I didn't doubt him. Let me know if you found out that I misunderstood his post. It was in the cornsnake forum of kingsnake about 6 months ago or so.
 
Stunning. My jaw has hit the floor. I don't think there is anything I can say that will compliment this enough! Congrats!
 
KJUN said:
Meltzer said he started with 1.1 from 3 different clutches. Each pair he "selected" in a different direction. Each group are only descended from those 1.1 siblings from the gravid female. I posted an image of one of yours and that's the story Meltzer told me. I can't verify it, but I didn't doubt him. Let me know if you found out that I misunderstood his post. It was in the cornsnake forum of kingsnake about 6 months ago or so.
Click to expand...

Well my memory isn't what it used to be...and my email conversations with him were at least a few years ago.

I still say, pick up some F1's from John Albrecht or one of the other guys around here that are working with w.c. okeetees and mix the lines. I like John, I've had a couple nice phone conversations with him. He and my good friend Jeff Yohe are a couple of corn snake pioneers and have my utmost respect.
 
Mike@boakingdom said:
Well my memory isn't what it used to be...and my email conversations with him were at least a few years ago.

I still say, pick up some F1's from John Albrecht or one of the other guys around here that are working with w.c. okeetees and mix the lines. I like John, I've had a couple nice phone conversations with him. He and my good friend Jeff Yohe are a couple of corn snake pioneers and have my utmost respect.
Click to expand...

I tried matching the male up with an unrelated F1 female of my own line, but he shot blanks with her. He shot blanks for DonG last year andfor me thisyear. Stupid male. lol. I've really just got frustrated with that line. I suspect I'll just toss the locality pure portion to the wind and cross this to unrelated "ZagTecs" to see how the genes match up next year. I might put him to that darn female with the fat deposits (hips). I really hate her having those things. That's the only corn I've ever had with those, and it bothers me....... :)

I wish the first trio would have lived, but they never did well, either.
KJ
 
Family Photo

Here's an old photo...

You can see how the pattern and borders get better from generation to generation with selective breeding :spinner:

I invested years of my time & passion into this project, it's nice to be getting some of my babies from Meg...I am THRILLED :crazy02:

aztec-group-1.jpg


Thanks Meg, you're a real Gem :wavey:
 
KJUN said:
I tried matching the male up with an unrelated F1 female of my own line, but he shot blanks with her. He shot blanks for DonG last year andfor me thisyear. Stupid male. lol. I've really just got frustrated with that line. I suspect I'll just toss the locality pure portion to the wind and cross this to unrelated "ZagTecs" to see how the genes match up next year. I might put him to that darn female with the fat deposits (hips). I really hate her having those things. That's the only corn I've ever had with those, and it bothers me....... :)

I wish the first trio would have lived, but they never did well, either.
KJ
Click to expand...

Maybe the problem is with that male and not the bloodlines. Either way you go with the project, it will turn out great...go with the "Zagtec" breedings or pick up a locality pure Okeetee male to pair up with the pure females and keep the lines pure Okeetee.

I sent 2.3 to my friend in Amsterdam. He later sent me photos of some Aztec "Okeetees" that a breeder in Germany has...the ones in Germany look nice but lack the coloration of "pure Okeetee"....if I were you, I would lean more towards keeping the lines true with another locality male.
 
Send him to me KJUN I'll be happy to pair him with my females and see what happens! I got 16 babies out of 17 eggs in the first clutch-one dead in egg full term. No slugs and 14 out of 14 eggs, no slugs out of the second. Last year, my aztec Okeetee het amel (another Heinrich line: locality Okeetee mother, reverse okeetee father) bred to my amel male produced 21 fertile eggs and 21 babies. I sure don't notice a fertility problem with mine.
Glad you're happy with my picks for you Mike. As soon as I sex the one you posted here, I'll know what to add for the third one. Shipping off a nice normal baby to someone next week. By the way: They are all good feeders too! No scenting for these babies!
 
Hi Mike, i have one of those animals too, got it from Jaap Kooi last year.
He mated two females this year and produced about 50 eggs total with them.
I thought you might like to know this..

Arjan
 
Snakexperience said:
Hi Mike, i have one of those animals too, got it from Jaap Kooi last year.
He mated two females this year and produced about 50 eggs total with them.
I thought you might like to know this..

Arjan
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update. I don't remember which male Jaap sold you, but the 2.3 I sent to Holland were a mix of 2 or 3 generations.

Good luck to you my friend :cheers:
 
Woowwie Meg, I can't wait to see what pops out my aztec breeding this year.. Hopefully something similair to that one Mike posted.. WOOT! * falls out of his chair* Woowwie...

We should be close to hatch time Meg, we are at 59 days for the aztec clutch, heres to hoping I can send you something as cool!

Regards.. Tim of T and J
 
MegF. said:
Send him to me KJUN I'll be happy to pair him with my females and see what happens!
Click to expand...

If these guys give me any problems next year, I'll make sure they just are no longer bred - at least that male and the hipped female. I know I sound bummed, but 6/6 have been not lived up to what one expects from captive-bred cornsnakes.

KJ
 
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