• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

Heat (and the things I read)

knox

knox

New member
I see replies in threads constantly that say:

"Anything over 86 degrees F can burn your (Corn, King, Rat) snake."

May I ask why people believe this to be the case?

I just probed my palm and it read 93.6 degrees F. My snakes are perfectly safe in my hand. They don't get "severely burned".

Go outside on a summer evening and point your temp gun at the asphalt, a limb, a rock, a patch of dirt, or any other place snakes are known to go for warmth. It will be quite a bit above 90 or 95 degrees. I probed the asphalt where I came upon a Black Rat resting last year at our local Disc Golf park and it was 104 F.

Now, I do understand that the snake has to have a cool place to which they can retreat when they warm up. But to say anything over 86 F for a warm side? I don't buy that at all.

I would rather have a 90 - 95 degree HOT spot - given the correct size enclosure - and the snake can then choose anywhere along the temperature gradient it desires.

So the question REALLY is, what is the temperature of your COOL side?

Thoughts? Rebuttals?
 
My cool side temps are 68-70 for my colubrids.

Don Soderberg gave me good advice when I was stressing about temps. He told me not to worry about the hottest part of the mat but to know the temp where the snake was actually spending its time. As long as my snakes have the option, I don't stress if their hottest part of the cage is 90. I'll find them there right after a meal, but they go elsewhere when they want.

As for what I am using for the corns/milk/kings (minus the black milk), I use flexwatt at the back of the rack with a hydrofarm thermostat and thermometers in the top (empty) tub. I check things with the temp gun, and I find that if my control tub says 85, it isn't always 85 in the other tubs, but as long as it's under 90, I don't worry about it.
 
The back of the tubs rest against the flexwatt (not right up to it because of the tub shape). The hydrofarm probe is in an empty tub at the top of the rack. It's only 3 tubs high.
 
The issue is less burns and more internal. Enzymes and proteins will break down at higher temperatures. This is why we run a fever when we get sick, the higher temperature will often break down the invaders in our body. A high enough fever or a long enough one can result in the breakdown of things our body needs however, this is why fevers can be really dangerous.

As mammals we can regulate our body temperatures to keep the enzymes in the correct range. As you know, a snake can't, it's body temperature is the same as it's environment. Now most of the time, this isn't really a problem as if the snake gets uncomfortably warm, it looks for a cooler spot.

What can be a concern though is if the snake refuses to leave it's hot spot. Often times things like fear and searching for cover can override the snake's desire to change temperatures and it will lie on the hot spot for way too long. If that spot is in the 90s, this is like having a fever for the snake and it can begin to cause health issues!

A lot of pet snakes are likely calm enough to move when they get too hot, but not all of them. Look at it like the two snakes in one tank thing. It CAN be done... but on the occasion it goes wrong, you're boned.

Plus imagine if while they're trying to digest... they don't really want to move, so they either suffer through too hot, or they have to haul that fat lump back and forth across the cage constantly!
 
Note: this is based on my limited knowledge of Biology and theory, feel free to debate, argue and ask more qualified people :p
 
LazyLemming said:
What can be a concern though is if the snake refuses to leave it's hot spot. Often times things like fear and searching for cover can override the snake's desire to change temperatures and it will lie on the hot spot for way too long.
Click to expand...

I can certainly agree with this. We ARE providing an artificial environment, so this could be a concern.

Hopefully, though, people are providing multiple hides.

***As a side note - my flexwatt is regulated at 86 degrees because I use smaller 32 qt tubs. If I were to have a larger enclosure, I would be fully confident in allowing a 90 - 95 degree hot spot***
 
Some of snakes ignore their hides and just burrow in the aspen. I'll find them in all different places.
 
I live in the deep south and hate the heat. Above 80F is uncomfortable. Above 90F is entirely too hot. Above 100F is absolutely insanely unbearable. I hate it. I can't stand it.

Has it killed me yet? No.
Do I have to endure it to live and carry out my daily, weekly, and yearly tasks? Yes.
Will I move toward a 68F-72F air-conditioned area if possible? Yes...if at all possible.
If I had no arms nor legs it might take me a little longer, but I would still move toward the AC.

Can anyone read my mind? No, thank goodness.
Or explain my daily meanderings? No, probably not.
 
vetusvates said:
I live in the deep south and hate the heat. Above 80F is uncomfortable. Above 90F is entirely too hot. Above 100F is absolutely insanely unbearable. I hate it. I can't stand it.

Has it killed me yet? No.
Do I have to endure it to live and carry out my daily, weekly, and yearly tasks? Yes.
Will I move toward a 68F-72F air-conditioned area if possible? Yes...if at all possible.
If I had no arms nor legs it might take me a little longer, but I would still move toward the AC.

Can anyone read my mind? No, thank goodness.
Or explain my daily meanderings? No, probably not.
Click to expand...

That's why it's necessary to have a gradient. To give the snake the option.

And I am glad people can't read MY mind as well...
 
Yeah...and it wasn't just a flippant rambling.

It is my Proof for the Tenet that an organism's internal temperature (whether endothermal or ectothermal) is an entirely different thing than the organism's "ideal" (or preferred) external 1) ambient air temperature, or 2) temporarily chosen surface contact temperature. And this changes with mood, level of metabolic activity, time of day, season, caloric intake, and other variables.
 
Last edited:
I think one of the concerns is that new snake keepers may not understand about things like having a good choice of hides in both the warm and cool areas, or even having both a warm area and a cool area at all. So it is a good idea to keep things relatively simply (have a warm side at X degrees and a cool side at Y degrees) instead of more complex (temps up to 100 degrees or maybe even more or probably ok as long as you have enough choices for the snake to get away from the heat that the snake will like). But one thing that drives me crazy yet I find it all over the place (and I don't mean just on snake forums) is when things are over-simplified to the point of just being wrong, such as the post that stated something along the lines of "temps over 86 degrees can severely burn your snake".

I think one source of confusion is that some species of snakes apparently can and will burn themselves even when they have a proper enclosure with good hides and a good temp gradient. I believe this may have something to do with snakes that evolved in climates where there rarely if ever were extreme temperatures. Our corn snakes evolved in climates where they had to learn to avoid extreme temperatures on both the hot and cold ends, so natural selection demanded that they be relatively good at thermoregulating themselves, and thus they will if given the opportunity in a proper enclosure.
 
kc261 said:
when things are over-simplified to the point of just being wrong, such as the post that stated something along the lines of "temps over 86 degrees can severely burn your snake".
Click to expand...

So by stating ""temps over 86 degrees can severely burn your snake"." is absolutely incorrect, according to you? But it is not incorrect, if the snake doesn't move from an area that is too hot, it WILL get burned or overheated to the point of danger.

Why not post this, when a new snake owner isn't sure what a good temp is. Go ahead and say "eh, don't worry about it being too hot on one side, they should move to the other side. The temp doesn't need to be regulated". And if they don't move? We have given them harmful advice. I don't think this information is "over-simplified to the point of just being wrong". It is simplified to help a new owner prevent a possible problem.

I see it as being no different than "don't cohab corns, they will cannibalize". WILL it happen? The chances are low, but it CAN and DOES happen, so why chance it? Will the snake stay on a 120° spot and burn themselves externally or internally? The chances are low, but it CAN and DOES happen, so why chance it?

Give the advice that will be most beneficial to the snake, and tell them what most likely won't happen but could. If I hadn't been told that high temps could harm my first snake, I probably wouldn't have any means of regulation on my UTHs, nor would most new snake owners. It is better to give the extreme answer of negative possibilities than a generalized "it probably won't happen".

Do you agree that 85° is a good temp for the warm side of the hide?
 
Last edited:
In order for a burn to actually occur, I don't think 93F is enough...
Death due to dehydration, protein damage etc... yes, but an actual burn?

A constant exposure to these temperatures is dangerous, but I don't think the word burn is appropriate.
 
Kokopelli said:
In order for a burn to actually occur, I don't think 93F is enough...
Death due to dehydration, protein damage etc... yes, but an actual burn?

A constant exposure to these temperatures is dangerous, but I don't think the word burn is appropriate.
Click to expand...

Yes, I do agree with you on this point. I guess "damage" would be a better term than "burn".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top