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Help, when to freak?! Eggs stuck?

LindsayMarie

LindsayMarie

Been here awhile
To make a long story short, I bought a trio of adults last fall. Neither female had ever double clutched, so no worries (at least I thought). Well I bred them both this year. The first to lay (hypo female 1) laid 16 fertile eggs about 58 days or so ago. I would have to look at my paperwork. Anyways, on 5/12 I cleaned her cage (which had a shed, not sure when she shed, except it was after 5/6), also she refused this meal on 5/12?? Ok, a GOOD eater refusing and the only other times she has, was before she laid first clutch. So I thought well maybe the shed threw her off. So I tried feeding again 3 days later, another refusal. Yep, something is definitely going on. So I palpate her and guess what? You guessed it, some lumps. Problem is, I have no idea when that prelay shed was other then between 5/6-5/12. I have a nest box, like last time in with her. However she is very unsettled. Seems more restless then last time and the closest egg that I can feel is at least 2" above the cloaca. Maybe even 3! Is she in "labor"? Looking for a better spot? Maybe just not due yet? Last time she layed 9 days past pre-shed. I think she is probably at least 9 days past or possibly more. Do the eggs "drop" right before laying, or should there be a palpable one right before the cloaca at this time? I am a little worried and she lost quite a bit of weight the first time and thought I was in the clear for recovery (wasnt supposed to double clutch). I dont know what to do, or how often to check on her. Right now I think I am checking too much and I even tried "massaging" them down. But to be honest, I dont know how to do it correctly, so I was more like palpating her, all she wanted was to roam. Ok so back to the subject, should I be freaking, is there anything I can do to move them down? (maybe she just isnt ready?) There may be a egg there that I cant feel! I dont want to cause any harm. Argggh :angry01: I wish I paid attention to the day she shed, but I thought all was done! :punch: Any comments, suggestions or info would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you, Lindsay

ps. Is it possible she can smell one of the 2 other females in the lay box even though I washed it with mild soap and water. Put new moist sphagnum? Should I take it out and let it soak and put new sphagnum again? Or is it too late and would it cause more stress? Or should I just throw some sphagnum in a corner of the cage too, giving more options?
 
First of all Breathe in deep, let it out slow and relax a bit :)

From what you're saying, she is 6 to 12 days past pre-lay shed, going by your dates. If the eggs are that far away from her cloaca, I would guess she's not ready to lay just yet, there is a lot to be said for being patient :)

I would leave the nest box where it is, if it's in the same place she laid her first clutch, only check on her once every 12 to 24 hours, unless you see her roaming, then count that as a check up. Try not to disturb her if she goes into the nest box and stays there, and if she does settle, then just check on her once every 24 hours. The less disturbance you can give her the safer she will feel to go ahead and lay those eggs :)

When you do check on her, just make sure she doesn't seem distressed, and that the eggs are not bunched up at her cloaca, if that happens, a vet visit may be in order.

I've got a girl at the moment who has had her pre-lay and post lay sheds and is still laying eggs (looks like mostly slugs). My vet has said she is not egg bound, partly because they are not all bunched up near the cloaca. I know this to be true now, as she laid another egg this morning.

I hope that helped some, keep us posted on her progress, and try to keep sane :crazy02:

Remember patience is a virtue
 
Lindsay, listen to Sue. She has been in your shoes for most of this breeding season! If she can advise calm while her storm is still raging, you can't go wrong with that advice. Best thing to do is let things happen naturally, in a stress free environment. Your girl knows when it's time. Only interfere if necessary. Good Luck.
Terri
 
Update on female double clutching w/ Question

Thank you for the replies and advice. Last night I took out 10 eggs! She double clutched for the first time, even though it was thought by the previous breeder that this line, didnt double clutch. :confused: Anyways, I am unsure about their fertility as they appear slightly different then the first 16 eggs. They are just as white, but are more oblong vs round and a couple have a little yellow on/in them? They were clumped together but felt much softer then the first time around, but I think the first eggs were laid and sat a little longer before I retrieved them.

My question. Are the eggs laid with veins or do they start after incubating for a few days? I candled them once in the incubator room, but all looked empty or had shadows of other eggs in them?

I took a few pics this time, but I will post them tomorrow or something when I am feeling a little better. I sure hope they dont triple clutch as this female surprisingly just handled double clutching. Poor thing, she accepted 2 fuzzies right away, AGAIN.

Thanks again for the help. Now I am just curious about the fertility and veins. I would feel horrible if she laid a whole clutch of duds, all that work for nothing! :(
 
Sometimes you can't see the veins at all. Depends on the density of the shell. As long as they aren't collapsed and covered in mould, treat them as if they're fertile. They sound fine to me.
 
Hi Lindsay, congrats on the successful laying :dancer: and it's good to hear she accepted food straight away, well done!

My first clutch laid this year didn't show veins until about 10 days into incubation, so as Bitsy said unless the eggs go mouldy and start collapsing treat them as if fertile. I've also got one girl who consistently lays huge torpedo shaped fertile eggs, so I don't go by shape or size either.

Good luck on the incubation and don't forget to keep us posted and I look forward to seeing the pics :)

Best wishes,
 
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