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Het Bloodred?

T

theneedmachine

New member
I have some babies hatched from a pair of Bloodreds. The mom is Het Hypo. Some of the babies look really nice and have good diffusion. Some look like normals...I have been told you cannot technically have a het for bloodred. Is this true? Are the babies that look bloodred, bloodreds?
thanks for any help!
 
If both parents are bloodreds, then ALL the babies are bloodreds. Diffusion is a recessive trait that both parents are homozygous for. Now, you can get varying levels of diffusion (some really good, some really poor) but ALL of them should have no belly checkers.

Now, one can indeed have a het for "bloodred", or more specifically diffusion, otherwise we'd never be able to produce granites, pewters, sulfurs, etc. But there is some element of line-breeding as well to get the best diffusion and deepest red. I have a bloodred male for example with incredible diffusion but he's as orange as... well... an orange.
 
Shiari said:
If both parents are bloodreds, then ALL the babies are bloodreds. Diffusion is a recessive trait that both parents are homozygous for. Now, you can get varying levels of diffusion (some really good, some really poor) but ALL of them should have no belly checkers.

Now, one can indeed have a het for "bloodred", or more specifically diffusion, otherwise we'd never be able to produce granites, pewters, sulfurs, etc. But there is some element of line-breeding as well to get the best diffusion and deepest red. I have a bloodred male for example with incredible diffusion but he's as orange as... well... an orange.
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I agree, although quite a few will have belly "checkers" that tend to be scattered along the sides and tails and tend toward reddish/orangish coloration. Also most can easily be identified by the head pattern, or lack thereof. Diffusion gives minimal patterning on the head,( the background tends towards gray)that if present look like inkblot eyebrows ( about the only way I can describe it).Some show "smeared" side patterning as well. Pics of the hatchlings would be great for an ID.
 
Ok here are some pics.,.....I know they are blurry, Im not much with a camera, sorry!

blood1.jpg


blood2.jpg


blood3.jpg


blood4.jpg


blood5.jpg


blood6.jpg
 
Those pics all look diffused to me. That first picture is a great example of a diffused head pattern.
 
since both the parents are bloodred, they would be bloodred. Not sure, but they would either be homo for hypo or het for hypo.
 
Cornsnake124 said:
since both the parents are bloodred, they would be bloodred. Not sure, but they would either be homo for hypo or het for hypo.
Click to expand...
If only the mother is het Hypo then all hatchlings would be 50% possible het hypo. The only way to know for sure would be to breed them to a Hypo ( or het) snake and produce more Hypos.
Those all definitely look to be diffused, the first one looks caramelish ( Is the color accurate?).
Congrats you have some nice diffused snakes there...one of my favorite morphs!
 
There seems to be some slight confusion about the terminology. "Bloodred" is a linebred look developed from the diffused gene to display a high amount of diffusion and intense red coloration...thus the term "Bloodred". Since this is technically a line-bred trait, technically a snake cnanot be het. bloordred.

However...the gene that creates the bloodred morph is "diffused" which is the pattern mutation that causes the side pattern to disappear to varying degrees, and the belly checks to vanish. A snake can absolutely be het. diffused.

The confusion comes into play when people interchange the terms "bloodred" and "diffused". Some people will call any snake homo. for diffused a "bloodred", when technically this isn't necessarily true. Technically speaking, a bloodred is the linebred, quintessential diffused snake...DEEEEEEEP red coloration, and HEAVY diffusion. A snake can be diffused without being a bloodred, but a bloodred is always diffused. Make sense?

Now...these are very strict definitions, and not everyone follows these definitions. In fact...I'm willing to bet that a few people are gonna slam me for saying this. So be it. I get slammed for saying a lot of things. Check the 2008 Cornsnake Morph Guide, read the definitions of "Diffused" and "Bloodred"...which, of course, I will again be slammed for using it as a resource, but...c'est la vie...

Quoted from the 2008 CMG:

Bloodred-Diffused plus selective breeding for borderless and extreme red.
Click to expand...

Diffused-Homozygous for diffusion at the diffused locus.
Click to expand...

In other words...Bloodred is a linebred trait, which means a snake cannot be het. bloodred. Diffusion is a single recessive gene, which means a snake absolutely CAN be het. for diffusion. Any snake that is being sold or bought as "het. bloodred" is actually, technically het. diffused...

All of the snakes you pictured above are absolutely GORGEOUS examples of the diffused trait, however, if the color is true, I would not yet call them "bloodred", as they are not very deeply red, even though they have absolutely STUNNING diffusion. As they amture and the colors "come in", they may develope into bloodreds, at which point you will have an awesome start on a future bloodred project. However, I would refrain from calling them "bloodred" until you have an established line of bloodreds being consistantly produced.

Just my $.02...
 
tyflier said:
The confusion comes into play when people interchange the terms "bloodred" and "diffused". Some people will call any snake homo. for diffused a "bloodred", when technically this isn't necessarily true.

Now...these are very strict definitions, and not everyone follows these definitions. In fact...I'm willing to bet that a few people are gonna slam me for saying this. So be it. I get slammed for saying a lot of things.
Click to expand...

I haven’t slammed anyone yet today so I thought I would start with Chris. Actually I agree with everything you have said. I would like to point out however that originally the term bloodred was used to describe the genetic trait. We didn’t realize that the color and the pattern morphs were two different things. Since it now is apparent they are separate the new term “diffused” has been added to describe the pattern morph. The term bloodred is used more to describe the color. Unfortunately, not everyone has made that distinction in their vocabulary and many are still using the term bloodred to describe a pattern morph.
 
I haven’t slammed anyone yet today so I thought I would start with Chris. Actually I agree with everything you have said. I would like to point out however that originally the term bloodred was used to describe the genetic trait. We didn’t realize that the color and the pattern morphs were two different things. Since it now is apparent they are separate the new term “diffused” has been added to describe the pattern morph. The term bloodred is used more to describe the color. Unfortunately, not everyone has made that distinction in their vocabulary and many are still using the term bloodred to describe a pattern morph.
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Thanks for that distinction Wade. :cheers:
 
I agree with both Chris and Wade also, no slam here, although I will admit to being confused about bloods/diffused when I first got into corns. This would be a great reference thread to help future "newbies".
 
wade said:
I haven’t slammed anyone yet today so I thought I would start with Chris. Actually I agree with everything you have said. I would like to point out however that originally the term bloodred was used to describe the genetic trait. We didn’t realize that the color and the pattern morphs were two different things. Since it now is apparent they are separate the new term “diffused” has been added to describe the pattern morph. The term bloodred is used more to describe the color. Unfortunately, not everyone has made that distinction in their vocabulary and many are still using the term bloodred to describe a pattern morph.
Click to expand...

See...there is a reason why I respect you so much, Wade...;)

Thanks for the distinction, as it is an important one to make. As more knowledge about a trait is gathered, definitions and terminology change...as they SHOULD change. Sometimes some people are slower on the uptake, and that's fine. Heck, some people still call corns "Rosy Ratsnakes"...but I digress...

I'm of the opinion that this particular distinction between the bloodred color trait and the diffused pattern trait is a VERY important distinction to make, and I further feel that the "modern" definitions are VERY important to the hobby. But that's just my opinion...
 
Chris mentioned..

Sometimes some people are slower on the uptake, and that's fine. Heck, some people still call corns "Rosy Ratsnakes"...but I digress...
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If they were refering to Upper Keys I could understand.. But thats another subject altogether..

Regards.. Tim of T and J
 
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