Hmmmm...herper etiquette?

[Kilala]

I wanted to put this where I'd get a lot of responses...

Ok...so we all probably know that within any hobby, there are "unwritten rules" associated with it. Like for surfing, you'd wait your turn for a wave, I assume. And for fishing, I assume people tell eachother when they find a good spot.

For herping:

-don't insult other people's herps

-find something to praise in everyone's animals

-don't criticize the animal's diets if the animals appear healthy

-don't criticize the herper's practices if the animals are doing well


But what about rescues? I recently sold a beardie I'd rescued, and the guy thought that I was being really rude to sell a rescued animal. Is it bad etiquette?

on another note, what else can anyone add to my list of "rules"?:crazy02:

 

[Nanci]

I've heard that once before- like, if you rescue an animal, you are responsible for it for the rest of its life. I disagree. You get it out of a bad situation, back on its feet, and then take the same care to find a suitable home that you would an animal you produced yourself, or bought and then decided to let go. Wow, what do you think would happen to the people who foster dogs/cats if they had to keep them all, not rehome them??

 

[The Nothing]

IMO it is NOT bad etiquette to sell a rescued animal. I do suggest, however, full disclosure. Explain that it was a rescue. Explain what you did for the animal and any illness the animal may have had before. At the same time, I wouldn't sell some rescues - It really does depend on the situation.

Case in point - one rescue we have is a Rubber Boa. It was wild caught, but brought to us because it was not going to survive the winter. It was in pretty bad shape having lost most all its tail in what is most likely a bird attack. Even if we could sell the animal we will not. It is strictly educational. On the other hand, we have a Dumeril's Boa that came to us as a rescue. It was origonally going to be culled by the breeder because it did not feed. After a year of force feeding it was readily accepting f/t rats. Now, years later, its even taking f/t from the tongs. He's in perfect health, despite his past. If we were forced to do so, we sell him. God-forbid that situation though.

As for the rest of your points, there are a million care sheets out there. A lot of them contradict each other. I tell people that every caresheet they come across on the internet are right. At the same time, every one of them are wrong. Take what works for you. Care suggestions I make at work can easily be different than what I do at home. The reason for this is that when I'm working, I'm representing the store and what the store stands for, what the store recommends, and what the store does. If I feel differently, I do relay this to the owner, but in the end, what the store does is what the store does. Period. I have never disagreed with the care suggested, but, at home, prefer to do things differently. Both ideas work.

It really comes down to you. Do you feel wrong about selling a rescued animal? Do you feel wrong criticizing what someone else is doing? If so, then you shouldn't.

 

[kathylove]

I agree with the above, plus...

When you take in the rescue, be sure you don't promise more than you can deliver. If you think you might have to eventually sell it, place it for adoption, or euthanize it, be sure to spell all of that out in writing to the person giving up the animal. Then they know ahead of time, and have nothing to complain about.

 

[tyflier]

I don't know...If I rescue an animal from poor conditions, and invest my own time, money and space to rehabilitating that animal...as far as I am concerned, it is my animal to do with as I please, when I please, and the person I rescued it from can take a long walk off a short pier.

If I pick up a child from the street and legally adopt it, I'm certainly not going to listen to the abandoners tell me how I can and cannot raise it, would I. If I purchase a classic car that is rusting away, I wouldn't let the original owner tell me what I am and am not allowed to change or re-do to get it running, would I? IMO, it's the same with a rescued animal. Once I rescue it and give it the appropriate treatment to get it thriving and healthy...it's my animal to do with as I please...

Now...certainly I would tell anyone I was giving or selling it to the full history of the animal and how it came to be in my possession, but...screw the original owner. If they couldn't take care of it in the first place, than they have absolutely no say in what happens to it after it becomes my animal...

 

[The Nothing]

Kathy - i wholeheartedly concur

 

[kathylove]

I agree with tyflier, EXCEPT... I would make sure that the people leaving the animal KNOW for certain that they have no rights once the animal is abandoned...that they sign their rights away when leaving. That way, you don't risk a misunderstanding when you have to do something unexpected with the animal. If they don't want to sign their rights away, fine - then you don't have to accept it. I doubt that any established rescue would accept a donation without such an agreement.

I do agree that once you have invested your blood, sweat, and tears, then it is yours to do with whatever you feel is right.

 

[tyflier]

I agree with tyflier, EXCEPT... I would make sure that the people leaving the animal KNOW for certain that they have no rights once the animal is abandoned...that they sign their rights away when leaving. That way, you don't risk a misunderstanding when you have to do something unexpected with the animal. If they don't want to sign their rights away, fine - then you don't have to accept it. I doubt that any established rescue would accept a donation without such an agreement.

I do agree that once you have invested your blood, sweat, and tears, then it is yours to do with whatever you feel is right.

I have to agree with your exception. Every animal I have ever rescued has been rescued under those precise conditions. The original owners will NOT get them back, and the animals will become 100% mine to do with as I see fit and necessary. And I will not take them unless their is a witnessed agreement between myself and the owner. I don't go so far as to have a contract, but I make sure there is at least 1 witness to the transaction, and I usually take pictures of the animal and it's environment before I accept it, just in case I need to prove neglect in court if the owner decides they want the animal back...

My rescued BP had this sort of scenario. Not long ago, the young man that so horribly mistreated her saw her and said, "WOW! She actually looks cool, now! Can I have her back?" Luckily, he is only 12 or he would have likely gotten a smack in the head from me. As it was...his aunt heard him and smacked him for me...:grin01:

 

[tricksterpup]

-don't insult other people's herps

LoL look at my signature, I tell Dean all the time I do not his like Cinders. But then again, we both respect each other. IT depends on your relationship and how well known you are to that person.

-don't criticize the animal's diets if the animals appear healthy

-don't criticize the herper's practices if the animals are doing well

I have to disagree, if someone says they have a corn snake eating Crickets and its doing well, thats not good. Or if someone is talking about sleeping with their Burm. I would would be vocal about how dangerous that is.
There are many things that happens in the herp keeping industry, and if I do see a post were someone is talking bad husbandry or just insane talk as proven talk, I am vocal. There are to many new people in the hobby, Its best to put the correct info out there and correct the idiots in the hobby with out being afraid to do so. But mind you, always post the correct information and list where you get your reference.

I agree with tyflier, EXCEPT... I would make sure that the people leaving the animal KNOW for certain that they have no rights once the animal is abandoned...that they sign their rights away when leaving. That way, you don't risk a misunderstanding when you have to do something unexpected with the animal. If they don't want to sign their rights away, fine - then you don't have to accept it. I doubt that any established rescue would accept a donation without such an agreement.

I do agree that once you have invested your blood, sweat, and tears, then it is yours to do with whatever you feel is right.

OH MY!!! I can not tell you how many times I have heard people asking someone else or me to fix their animal due to neglect or poor husbandry and then expect the animal back after its healthy again, free of charge. And they always wonder why I either say no or have a dumb founded look on my face.
I mean seriously, you wouldn't expect me to take care of your child while it had the flu and then expect it back for free?

 

[Jrgh17]

I have to say that I don't agree with many of the original herping "rules". I think that it's wrong to call them anything but suggestions. I fully agree with trickster in the sense that if I have something to say, I am going to speak up. The very point of posting on a public forum is that everyone is allowed and everyone is able to voice their opinion. Now, no one should pretend that I'm condoning posting "I hate your snake" on a picture thread. I'm simply saying that free speech doesn't stop being in effect when a person doesn't like what's being said. :shrugs:

(The use of the word "you" in the following paragraph is not referring to a specific person)

Another point is that a lot of people will say "oh, I've been doing [irresponsible husbandry practice here] for 2 months and my snake is completely fine." Well, great, but how do we *know* your snake is completely fine? No offense, but if you're engaging in whatever husbandry practice that's considered bad, I do not trust your opinion that your snake is fine. When I've asked for proof (weights, pictures, etc), many people get angry. If you expect to do something new/weird/original/against popular knowledge, and want everyone to believe that your animal(s) are doing great, you better be able to back it up somehow. If you want me to believe that your snake has been eating crickets for the last year and is healthy, show me weight data on the animal. I care more about the health of the animal than the feelings of it's owner.

I do, however, wholeheartedly agree that once you accept a rescue, that animal and all rights are completely yours.

 

[Kilala]

I have to disagree, if someone says they have a corn snake eating Crickets and its doing well, thats not good. Or if someone is talking about sleeping with their Burm. I would would be vocal about how dangerous that is.

LOL, well duh! I meant within reason. I was referring to the whole "mice vs rats" controversy, and the "feeding-in-enclosure/feeding-outside-enclosure" controversy when I said that.

Another point is that a lot of people will say "oh, I've been doing [irresponsible husbandry practice here] for 2 months and my snake is completely fine." Well, great, but how do we *know* your snake is completely fine? No offense, but if you're engaging in whatever husbandry practice that's considered bad, I do not trust your opinion that your snake is fine. When I've asked for proof (weights, pictures, etc), many people get angry. If you expect to do something new/weird/original/against popular knowledge, and want everyone to believe that your animal(s) are doing great, you better be able to back it up somehow. If you want me to believe that your snake has been eating crickets for the last year and is healthy, show me weight data on the animal. I care more about the health of the animal than the feelings of it's owner.

Well, yeah. I'm talking about seeing the animal in person and it seems okay. I'm not talking about the idiots who feed crickets. I meant the little differences in husbandry, like substrate, heating and lighting, etc.

 

[ghosthousecorns]

Yes the little things often turn into big things unnecessarily. Like lights, if the light is giving you the same temp gradient as UTH who cares?
Or where you buy your feeders. Big deal, at least you are feeding the right thing. Corns aren't going to look at the label.
Substrate, lol I use carefresh. I like it better. As long as it's not pine or cedar, no major harm done from the fact it's not aspen.
If somebody's practices are putting snake in danger, speak up. If not, MYOB!