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Hostility Between Corns

S

strange

New member
For the record I saw the recent co-habitation thread, but that doesn't quite cover the gist of my question (and Googling was pretty useless).

I have two corns (roughly the same size and age) who have co-habitated for a long time without any issues (they ate, they hung out, appeared to be the best of friends, no hostility). Recently, one has begun to be aggressive towards the other, but only when I am doing something in their tank - the rest of the time, like I said, best mates.

None of my corn snake-owning friends have ever experienced anything like this, so I am reaching out in the hopes that one of you have. What would trigger a sudden onset of hostility after a long history of nothing like this? And why only when I am near? For the record, I'm very likely going to separate the two, but I'm curious as to how/why this has occured.

The snakes themselves are great around people, and don't even object to being handled by young children.

Thanks in advance!
 
Why not search for threads on co-habitation, and research for yourself about the downsides to co-habitation. My bet is that they are both males, and are grown up enough to know how they feel about territory etc.

Why not just seperate them?. They won't stop being agressive towards each other. They are NOT best mates, corns don't feel emotionally attached to others sharing THEIR territory. They won't miss each other, and they WILL thank you for giving them their own space.
 
If there's agression there's already a problem.
You may not see other instances because you can't possibly watch them 24/7.

Please seperate them before there is a bigger issue.
 
Agreed.
Though I'm not so much against co-habitation it is pretty much a fact that it is less preferable. The advantages are mostly economical, the snake doesn't really gain much from it.
If they are hostile against one another, the best thing to do is to separate them.
 
strange said:
For the record I saw the recent co-habitation thread, but that doesn't quite cover the gist of my question (and Googling was pretty useless).

I have two corns (roughly the same size and age) who have co-habitated for a long time without any issues (they ate, they hung out, appeared to be the best of friends, no hostility). Recently, one has begun to be aggressive towards the other, but only when I am doing something in their tank - the rest of the time, like I said, best mates.

None of my corn snake-owning friends have ever experienced anything like this, so I am reaching out in the hopes that one of you have. What would trigger a sudden onset of hostility after a long history of nothing like this? And why only when I am near? For the record, I'm very likely going to separate the two, but I'm curious as to how/why this has occured.

The snakes themselves are great around people, and don't even object to being handled by young children.

Thanks in advance!
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This isnt solely directed at you because Ive seen other people say the same thing, but what exactly do corns that are best friends/mates look like? How can you tell they dont mind being housed together? Its not like your going to catch them flipping eachother off is it? Its not like your going to over hear a convo between them about going out to dinner.

Maybe they never liked co housing to begin with, but tolerated being in the same place because of comfortable temperature conditions or comfortabe hides.

I dont know, that always boggles my mind.


To answer your question, you didnt specify age, sex or how long youve housed them together.........its probably due to age......


Unless they were mating they wouldnt be chilling together in their natural environment.....separate them.
 
As I said, I intend to separate them, but was curious about why they would be aggressive towards each other ONLY while I am working in the tank (be it cleaning or whatever) - these two are my first two snakes, and while I have lots of snake owners as friends who have given much good advice over the years, you can't fault me for being curious about the behaviour of my pets (especially new, unusual behaviour). What sort of pet owner would I be if I didn't attempt to learn all I could about the creatures in my care? And while, yes, separating them is the solution, it still doesn't answer the "why" and that's what I'm interested in.

For the record, their tank is beside my desk in my home office, which means I probably spend more time watching them than most snake owners do - and primarily you'll find them curled up together on the top of their log or in their coconut hut, I have NEVER seen this sort of behaviour or anything I would even classify as slightly aggressive - except in the last two weeks, except when I have my hands in the tank (and having done a fair bit of research on co-habitation and its risks before attempting it, this was something I've always watched for closely). That's what I find so weird. If there were other indicators, I wouldn't have wasted your time with this on a forum (because you can read about other indicators everywhere.) Sure I can't watch them 24/7 but I often spend 14 to 16 hours a day (many times late into the night) at that desk, so I'd have seen something if there was something to be seen

This thread has nothing to do with co-habitation as a practice, as obviously there are a multitude of opinions on the matter, I simply wanted to ask if anyone has heard of or experienced something similar? And what better place to ask than where snake owners congregate?

Someone mentioned that it might be due to age... are there certain ages / time in a snake's life where they are known to go through personality changes???

Thanks.
 
Well when snakes (pretty much any animal) becomes sexually mature there will be some sort of behaviorial changes.

How old are your snakes?
 
I guess I'm cranky today, but since cornsnakes are creptisecular, unless you sit at your desk every evening and early am, you may be missing what they do. They become aggressive when you are cleaning because they were sleeping, they're cranky because of weather changes, daylight hours changing. A couple of mine have been more alert, fiesty when I'm cleaning and they are alone. They stay together in the viv because that is the ideal spot for them not as a unit but individually. They are as others said becoming sexually mature.
Justine you go girl, I don't get it either. How can anyone prove or disprove a snakes emotions, other then for whatever reason they have a tude'. :shrugs: susang
 
strange said:
For the record I saw the recent co-habitation thread, but that doesn't quite cover the gist of my question (and Googling was pretty useless).

I have two corns (roughly the same size and age) who have co-habitated for a long time without any issues (they ate, they hung out, appeared to be the best of friends, no hostility). Recently, one has begun to be aggressive towards the other, but only when I am doing something in their tank - the rest of the time, like I said, best mates.

None of my corn snake-owning friends have ever experienced anything like this, so I am reaching out in the hopes that one of you have. What would trigger a sudden onset of hostility after a long history of nothing like this? And why only when I am near? For the record, I'm very likely going to separate the two, but I'm curious as to how/why this has occured.

The snakes themselves are great around people, and don't even object to being handled by young children.

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...


Do you feed then in their cage? If so, that might be a reason for the aggression, since some movement might be attributed to them thinking your food..... Just a thought, nothing factual...
 
Excellent points, Susang, and ones that make a ton of sense. Recently I have been cleaning the tank during the day rather than at night, which might explain why they are reacting like this only when I'm cleaning (and only of late).

I guess I'm cranky today, but since cornsnakes are creptisecular, unless you sit at your desk every evening and early am, you may be missing what they do.
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Actually I do, I'm a writer/editor so it is not unusual for me to be at my desk till 2 or 3 in the morning, or even as early as 5am. Part of my reason for choosing snakes as pets, they keep as strange hours as I do!
 
Look at it this way...in the wild corn snakes never travel together, they never bask together, they never eat together...The only time corns come together in the wild is to mate..Once they are done with that they will seperate once more and go their own way..Snakes are a species that like their own space..Their not family or pack animals..I agree with Susan on the reasons why your snakes are starting to become so aggresive..I'm also pretty sure it is due to their age..Their reaching maturity now and want to start finding their own space but can't..Plus not to mention we are at the end of the breeding season so males would probably become a little more desperate around this time and thus more aggressive towards competition...Hope this helps.. :shrugs:
 
The only thing I can add - and mind you - this is pure speculation on my part...
If they recognize that when you are in the tank that it might be feeding time - they may be getting competetive with each other to be the one to the food first.

I know some of mine that reside alone recognize that "most" of the time when I open up their living quarters that it must be dinner time and will key in on my hand or finger as food. I specifically try to go in and handle those snakes more often so they do not always assume that just because I opened their lid that they are going to get fed - trying to avoid more bites.
 
I still think it's impossible that you're catching their every waking moment :shrugs:
Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening, especially when it's already happening when you do see it.
 
I just want to say that it is entirely possible that the reason why snakes in the wild do not dwell together is because they compete over the same food sources and go through many a starvation periods.

Competition is induced when the conditions are less than optimal.

If they are kept warm and fed at all times, there's no real reason for competition to occur.

Now, I don't really think that what I said now is true- but I can't really prove that it is false either.

As long as I cannot determine scientifically and without any shred of doubt one fact or another- I refrain from telling people that they are wrong or right.
I simply saw many heated debates and think that a little more patience would do us all good. Each has his or her own methods.

One thing I do think though, is that these snakes should be separated. One aggressive event should be thick enough a hint for you to realize that its time for each of them to move out into their own houses with separate bedrooms and bathrooms :)
 
Scientific proof or not and each has to make their own decision. When I got my first two snakes was told they could co-hab, by pet shop. My female snow was a poor eater and one night my male constricted her, she died the next day. Now maybe he was giving her a hug who knows? I had the amel for about 2 years before I got another snake, again a different pet shop said put them together. First nite amel went after the new snake, turns out they were both males and it was early Feb. I seperated them immediatly and have only put two snakes together to breed. Experience, anticdotal, but not science, debatable.
Found this site a couple weeks later when yet another pet shop told me my cats could spread fleas to my snakes :shrugs: susang
 
Pet shop owners will sell their souls in order to make a sale. Many of them are damn liars or alternatively have no clue and base their "sage lore" on rumors and nonsense.

I am not saying that you're wrong, just not saying people who think differently are wrong either.

"The truth is out there" and when I have a firm belief in the way it was procured, I will say right or wrong.

Until that time there are proofs that co habitation can go badly but can also go without a single incident.
 
susang said:
My female snow was a poor eater and one night my male constricted her, she died the next day. Now maybe he was giving her a hug who knows?
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Gosh Susan Im so sorry but that had me laughing...Im sorry girl.
 
strange said:
And while, yes, separating them is the solution, it still doesn't answer the "why" and that's what I'm interested in..
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The WHY is they dont like being housed together, they NEVER did.


strange said:
and primarily you'll find them curled up together on the top of their log or in their coconut hut, I have NEVER seen this sort of behaviour or anything I would even classify as slightly aggressive - .
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Their curled up together because that is the spot that is warmest or most secure for a corn snake, and they have NO CHOICE because their trapped in an enclosure but to share it. Their NOT curled up together because they like sitting on eachothers back.


Now that their older and not as terrified as a younger snake, they feel more secure displaying their feelings of 'Get out of my tank, hide, etc' towards eachother.



I dont mean to be rude but, you say youve researched co-habbing but then you again ask why your snakes dont seem to tolerate co-habbing. :shrugs:


Baby snakes tolerate things because their like all other baby things..........scared, naive, and dont know any better......who knows.
 
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