Housing 2 significantly different snakes together?

[Malaika]

Hello all!

New question. Is it safe to house 2 corn snakes together when they're a year apart, substantially different in size, and one has not seen another snake since she was 2 weeks old?

Although I vowed never to do it, I've fallen in love with a hatchling that my boyfriend takes care of in my college's herp lab. The hatchling was born on the 14th of this month and is very tiny. Isha, my '07, is around 200 grams and probably a bit over 2 feet long.

Would it be safe to house these two together, or should I wait until the hatchling has gotten bigger? Is there a specific way to 'introduce' snakes to one another?

Grazie!!

 

[starsevol]

Please do a search on cohabitation.
It is NEVER "safe" to house 2 cornsnakes together.
They are solitary animals.
They "might" appear to be ok, but forcing solitary animals to share space is inviting stress, cannabolism and other health problems.


There is never a problem....until there's a problem!

Why can't you just get another cage for the hatchling?

 

[DaGiant]

They are not social animals.. DO NOT house them together!
Do a search under "Co-hab" on this site and you will find it is
VERY frowned upon to do so.
And especially with the size difference!
If you want the Little one, get it a Viv, Tank or Tub of its own first.

And BTW around here Pics are VERY welcome too.. LOL
I hope you enjoy them..

 

[tips]

This site gets atleast 50 threads a week with the same exact question. Just look around and you'll find your answer.

 

[diamondlil]

I'd have to say 'No', because this sounds too risky for the little one, who would most likely end up as a snack for Isha. It's not like introducing a new puppy to an older dog, you won't be able to inhibit the feeding instinct of the bigger snake.

 

[snakewispera snr]

I guess you know the answer now, well from our point of view anyway.

 

[Flagg]

If this isn't a complete troll, it should be.

 

[Malaika]

Thanks

Thank you guys!

I'm really sorry I asked a frequent question. I tried searching for related questions a hundred times, but, being the genius that I am, didn't use the word 'cohabitation'.

I do have another question, though. At the herp lab in my college, they house corn snakes together in pairs. Why is that if it's such a bad thing to do? I figure the Dr. working there would know. She's had experience with reptiles for 30 years. Why would she house them together?

 

[bitsy]

Why would she house them together?

Convenience, which would be over-riding the risks to the snakes. You see it in pet stores as well.

Thankfully as private keepers, we have the opportunity to choose the welfare option.

 

[Pruddock]

Thank you guys!

I'm really sorry I asked a frequent question. I tried searching for related questions a hundred times, but, being the genius that I am, didn't use the word 'cohabitation'.

I do have another question, though. At the herp lab in my college, they house corn snakes together in pairs. Why is that if it's such a bad thing to do? I figure the Dr. working there would know. She's had experience with reptiles for 30 years. Why would she house them together?

Actually if its a lab and the snakes are being used for studies you might want to warn your professor he could get into some trouble (i believe). There are strict regulations on how snakes must be kept, how often they have to be checked, and I believe that unless the study specifies cohabitation as a part of the study you're not supposed to be doing it. :awcrap: Not 100% sure though but I think I remember reading it somewhere when I was looking at doing a molecular study on different North American venoms vs. Speckled King blood.

 

[FunkyRes]

Turtle Bay Exploration Park here in Redding houses several California Kingsnakes together. It is a very large cage with several "optimal" places for the snakes - and they've never had a problem.

The also house two Gopher snakes together.

I highly doubt there are any regulations against it, and while I don't do it and do not recommend it to anyone, there are some extremely experienced keepers who do it regularly - though usually in much bigger setups than hobbyists typically have. It's not as black and white as some like to paint it, but it probably should never be done by the new keeper who isn't quite as in tune with reptile behavior and how to read it.

 

[v_various]

Thank you guys!
I do have another question, though. At the herp lab in my college, they house corn snakes together in pairs. Why is that if it's such a bad thing to do? I figure the Dr. working there would know. She's had experience with reptiles for 30 years. Why would she house them together?

I like the quote "there's never a problem, until there's a problem". If you do look at some of the other threads, there are comments from members who had done exactly that in the past. Until they ran into problems. They may have co-habed dozens of dozens, but is it worth it after one or two snakes die as a result of a co-hab? Some large breeders may see the need to save space, and maybe they won't have problems. but as pet owners I really think the safest option is best.
(besides the fact snakes are solitary in nature, if they have the choice they don't spend time together. I take that as a big indicator of what proper husbandry is).

Besides, sterlite containers are SO CHEAP and easy to set up. I have both glass tanks and the sterilite, I like them both but I like the plastic much better come cleaning time.

 

[Pruddock]

Turtle Bay Exploration Park here in Redding houses several California Kingsnakes together. It is a very large cage with several "optimal" places for the snakes - and they've never had a problem.

The also house two Gopher snakes together.

I highly doubt there are any regulations against it, and while I don't do it and do not recommend it to anyone, there are some extremely experienced keepers who do it regularly - though usually in much bigger setups than hobbyists typically have. It's not as black and white as some like to paint it, but it probably should never be done by the new keeper who isn't quite as in tune with reptile behavior and how to read it.

Parks and animal labs are two very different things with very different regulations. Technically no zoo or park even HAS to abide to any government regulations beyond the general animal rights regulations. The AZA is just a organization that recognizes zoos and aquariums and has suggested regulations that you have to abide by if you want to be a part of the organization.

When it comes to lab animals there is a whole different set of regulations that are much stricter. They may not have a specific rule that says "don't cohab snakes" but they do have general guidelines about "territorial species" that can infer snakes under a certain condition. Not to mention if one DOES end up eating another one or injuring it severely your lab is SOL and up a certain creek with no paddle. I don't know if the poster is referring to an actual animal lab or just a "biology lab" environment where her prof keeps snakes for personal enjoyment and utilization in his teaching. Either way, I was just pointing it out as a consideration and possible point of interest.

 

[Weebonilass]

Turtle Bay Exploration Park here in Redding houses several California Kingsnakes together. It is a very large cage with several "optimal" places for the snakes - and they've never had a problem.

The also house two Gopher snakes together.

I highly doubt there are any regulations against it, and while I don't do it and do not recommend it to anyone, there are some extremely experienced keepers who do it regularly - though usually in much bigger setups than hobbyists typically have. It's not as black and white as some like to paint it, but it probably should never be done by the new keeper who isn't quite as in tune with reptile behavior and how to read it.

The St Louis Zoo keeps a rattler and a cornsnake together in an exhibit... on sand no less... doesn't make it right.

 

[Ceridwen]

When it comes to lab animals there is a whole different set of regulations that are much stricter. They may not have a specific rule that says "don't cohab snakes" but they do have general guidelines about "territorial species" that can infer snakes under a certain condition.

Each school has a committee that approves the setup being used for the animals in question when a professor wants to start a research project (called an IACUC committee in the US). In general, the recommendations of the major academic group for the study of those animals are given considerable weight when the committee is determining the appropriate conditions for the animal.

For herps one such group is the American Society of Ichthyologists and Herpetologists (ASIH) which has recommendations for herps that can be found HERE. While there is no specific provision requiring that snakes be housed individually there is mention made of recreating the appropriate "social habitat", which for snakes would generally be solo cages.

That said, as long as the prof has approval of their schools IACUC committe (or equivalent), they are in the clear. That doesn't make it the best way to keep an animal though. Cats being used for research are often housed in a large colony and not spayed or neutered, doesn't make it the right way to keep a pet cat. The needs of each situation are different.

 

[Pruddock]

Each school has a committee that approves the setup being used for the animals in question when a professor wants to start a research project (called an IACUC committee in the US). In general, the recommendations of the major academic group for the study of those animals are given considerable weight when the committee is determining the appropriate conditions for the animal.

For herps one such group is the American Society of Ichthyologists and Herpetologists (ASIH) which has recommendations for herps that can be found HERE. While there is no specific provision requiring that snakes be housed individually there is mention made of recreating the appropriate "social habitat", which for snakes would generally be solo cages.

That said, as long as the prof has approval of their schools IACUC committe (or equivalent), they are in the clear. That doesn't make it the best way to keep an animal though. Cats being used for research are often housed in a large colony and not spayed or neutered, doesn't make it the right way to keep a pet cat. The needs of each situation are different.

Thank you. I knew that TAMU has its own regulatory board and UT has its own regulatory board but I wasn't sure of the exact stipulations and didn't want to take the time to go find it lol.

 

[Ceridwen]

Thank you. I knew that TAMU has its own regulatory board and UT has its own regulatory board but I wasn't sure of the exact stipulations and didn't want to take the time to go find it lol.

No problem. I did an IACUC training session at the beginning of last semester as part of lab meeting. I have a silly little certificate thing for it around here somewhere!

 

[snakewispera snr]

Turtle Bay Exploration Park here in Redding houses several California Kingsnakes together. It is a very large cage with several "optimal" places for the snakes - and they've never had a problem.

The also house two Gopher snakes together.

I highly doubt there are any regulations against it, and while I don't do it and do not recommend it to anyone, there are some extremely experienced keepers who do it regularly - though usually in much bigger setups than hobbyists typically have. It's not as black and white as some like to paint it, but it probably should never be done by the new keeper who isn't quite as in tune with reptile behavior and how to read it.

Good God Funk, there you go again.
I wish you wouldn't do this....... You give people ammo to substantiate their choice........ I know what you are saying is technically right... For an experienced herper..... But the person asking the question wouldn't be asking it if they had the necessary knowledge ......
And to upset everyone else.... Sorry... As a corn site, will attract newbs....
Thats why I picked No..... And you should.... Unless you intend to pop around all their houses to see if they got it all cool.... LOL