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How do you feel about God.

Is blindly following the head of a religion akin to blindly following the head of state or should there be some thinking going on in both instances?

And if the down-right derogatory and insulting statements about one's religious beliefs (and atheism is a religious belief, by the way) doesn't cease, a whole ton of infractions are going to be issued and this thread closed. I'm not going to issue any at this moment despite the reported posts flying from this thread, but I can't be so sure any of the other moderators or the site's owner won't right now. If you people want to insist on talking about a known heated topic, keep it to sex, no religion or politics, and PLEASE, go down to The Lounge to do it! And if you're not invited by Mike, maybe a PM to him will open the door for you. If not, there's most likely a good reason why so just accept it, you're not the only one.
 
I don't want a second infraction until my first one goes away, and I think I still have about 5 months left on that one, so I won't be able to post in this thread for another 5 months.

Whatever it is that you're all looking for, I truly hope you find it. But you shouldn't have to die to find it.
 
Nate, I understand some of your points. I don't think anyone likes the zealot screaming at us that we're going to hell. I believe a woman should have control over her reproductive activities. I think homosexuals should be allowed to marry, just the same as heterosexuals. I'm not Catholic, so I can't speak for what is and what is not swept under the rug, but I would be willing to guess that a great majority of the church also does not support child molestation.

Just because I'm Christian doesn't mean I'm a moron, and it doesn't mean I don't "believe in" science. I have a wonderful story that involves both, but I can't post it in a public forum- the people concerned have kept the details private. But the bottom line is, both can coexist.

This thread would be more enjoyable if people refrained from insults and name calling.
 
I really didn't intend to call the people in this thread morons. That was more pointed toward the preacher types, but I should have clarified. I'm actually OK with religion, so long as I don't have to deal with it shoved down my throat, but since I can't go to work without passing billboard or sign that says I'm going to hell, its hard to hide my frustrations.
 
Atheism is no more a religious belief, than failing to believe in unicorns is a religious belief. Or failing to believe in santa, the tooth fairy, or thor.
 
Shiari said:
Atheism is no more a religious belief, than failing to believe in unicorns is a religious belief. Or failing to believe in santa, the tooth fairy, or thor.
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I will have words with any man, or woman, who doesn't believe in Santa or Unicorns.
 
I just want to point out that I've said nothing derogatory or insulting towards anyone or anything or towards someone's religious beliefs. so...don't infract me again lol
 
SnakeAround said:
I have been readign a bit on http://www.venganza.org/about/ and I think this piece of text is valuable to both believers and non beleivers to be able to agree to disagree;

"For many religions, acceptance is due to the time it has been around and due to the number of people who already follow it. For potential followers it’s often less a consideration of evidence, and more a judgment that the collective group of followers is better informed. That millions or billions of people already follow this religion is strong social proof that there is something to it. The larger the group and the longer it has been around, the more pronounced the effect.

But nonbelievers are overreaching when they dismiss the phenomenon of religion as wrong and useless because it so often lacks a basis in evidence. The fact that millions of people get something positive out of a religion – even if it is based in superstition – *does* mean something. But that’s not to say it’s True, only that it has Value. For many people, religion is about being part of a community and being part of something bigger and more important than themselves.

Nonbelievers would be better off criticizing only on the negative, damaging parts of religion, and being less judgmental about the idea of religion in general. Nonbelievers get hung up asking for evidence when really we should be looking at why does religion thrive despite evidence? We should be pushing the idea that faith is not equivalent to evidence-based-reasoning without insisting that it’s inferior, only that they are different ways of seeing the world. And that the problems happen when these world views clash. "
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Yeah the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is pretty awesome and they make some very legitimate points.
 
fyrefocks said:
I really didn't intend to call the people in this thread morons. That was more pointed toward the preacher types, but I should have clarified. I'm actually OK with religion, so long as I don't have to deal with it shoved down my throat, but since I can't go to work without passing billboard or sign that says I'm going to hell, its hard to hide my frustrations.
Click to expand...

I don't care for those billboards, either, but do you find _any_ billboards interesting or attractive? They are just attempting to guilt weak people, indecisive people, lonely people into joining their church, so they can GET MONEY. That is one thing that kind of turned me off organized religion is they seemed to become more money-oriented, more like you were _required_ to give, rather than asked, over the years. Less like charity, more like taxation. I despise any TV preaching- who even watches that???

So, once again, please don't think all us Christians are driving by the God billboards yelling "AMEN, BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" out our car windows. Most likely we're cringing just like you.

But I don't think the kind of golden rule-ish radio adverts for various local churches, that just say, hey, here's a little blurb about being good, please come see what we're all about, are any more annoying than other ads for local businesses that sometimes drive me insane! Like, who even comes up with some of that crap?? People ought to be forced to listed to their ad a hundred times in a row before putting it on the air.

Geez, I live near Gainesville, home of Dove World Outreach Center and Terry Jones. What a great ambassador he is...(NOT!)
 
Shiari said:
Atheism is no more a religious belief, than failing to believe in unicorns is a religious belief. Or failing to believe in santa, the tooth fairy, or thor.
Click to expand...

Dictionary.com said:
Religion-
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices
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Dictionary.com said:
Atheism-
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
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Since there is a large population of people that believe there is no God, I say it fits the definition of a religion. Just my opinion.
 
Susan said:
Since there is a large population of people that believe there is no God, I say it fits the definition of a religion. Just my opinion.
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Yeah, maybe, but we don't meet once a week to talk about it. Nor do we try to con other atheists out of our hard earned money, unlike the evil televangelists.
 
It may be a ridiculous thought, but I think it also think it matters what "God" is to some people. I believe in a much higher power, and although a lot of people hear "God" and assume that it means something religiously specific, I would say that God could be anything. I believe that there is such a thing as good, and that love is real, and that we are all connected in such a deeper way that can be explained by science (and religion for that matter). I have no idea the complexity of what it is that I believe, and it's the certainty of some religious figures (and non-religious) that is what upsets me about the whole discussion. I just see religion as a guideline for certain people to try and live better lives. That's not always the case with how religion is interpreted, and I believe that there are many other things in our lives that make us better people that have nothing to do with religion, but at the end of the day I appreciate people who see religion as one of the many ways to try and be closer to their full potential.

Heaven and Hell is just too specific of a thought for me personally to consider myself religious, because I just can't see how any books can describe the depth of life and after life in full. But I do believe that we're here for a reason, and in my own life, that certain things happen for a reason. The way I feel about my family, the love they have for me, my goal to be a better person, etc... I just can't see how there isn't a reason for it. Life is just so complex, and I personally don't believe that evolution explains the half of it (although I do very strongly believe in science as a whole).

I also believe that praying every now and then is important for me, just like writing down my thoughts are. Not because I feel like there's an actual person on the other end that hears my every word, but because I feel like it's important to physically express what it is to be thankful, loving, hopeful, and so on.

Just my thoughts. I honestly think that we can't even begin to say that somewhat is right or wrong, because even if the specifics of what they're saying are Un-factual, the reasoning for them having that belief might be 100% right. We all have different experiences, and there's nothing that can make one person know exactly what's right for another person.
 
So Susan, does that mean you an a-unicorn-ian as well? And an a-toothfairy-an and an athorian and azeusian and aninnanan and anamaterasu-an, etc etc etc?

The only single "unifying" thing about atheists is the lack of belief in ANY deity or higher power. There are no 'practices', there's no heirarchy, no dogma. It's one thing. "Think the idea of gods is a bit silly and that there are none? You're an atheist." You're already 99% of the way there by not believing in any of the other gods.

To all the religious, without using your religious texts, prove to me why *your* god is real and other gods are not.
 
Shiari said:
To all the religious, without using your religious texts, prove to me why *your* god is real and other gods are not.
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That isn't exactly fair for the simple reason that non-existent proof is not proof of non-existence. However, I sure would love to see some proof, for once, instead of hearing quotes from the Bible.
 
See, I just don't feel the need to even make that claim. People can have their Allah and their Brahma and their Buddha and worship them- it doesn't matter to me, doesn't hurt me, I respect that that is their god, their person. I don't have to "prove" that my God is real and theirs is not. Anyone else's belief or lack thereof doesn't affect me one way or the other. Live and let live. If anything, I would be curious, interested in hearing some thoughts on a different major religion here.
 
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