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How do you feel about God.

On a random note, I've enjoyed buying gifts for loved ones of multiple faiths this year. I found a GORGEOUS chakra want for a pagan friend of mine who is going to LOVE it, and an incredibly beautiful Mezuzah (Please correct my spelling if it's wrong) for the hubby's stepmom.

One thing I can't stomach is this: My father abused me and my siblings growing up. Physically and mentally. We're all still trying to recover form the things he did to us. Suddenly a few years ago he found religion. Now he seems to think that all should be well with the family because he's a faithful Catholic and blah blah blah whatever other garbage. He's never apologized or tried to make amends, it's just suddenly supposed ot be OK because he thinks he's someone different now. Yeah, right.
 
I'm always surprised people actually believe that 'Christmas' is under attack. It so completely dominates everything during late November and all through December. I never see anything but Christmas everywhere.

Honestly, some people are dicks who get mad if you say "Merry Christmas". It has nothing to do with Christmas and everything to do with those people being dicks. Some people are dicks who get mad if you say "Happy Holidays". It has nothing to do with the lack of Christmas and everything to do with those people being dicks.

And then finally there are dicks who whine about the "Attack on Christmas" while they are surrounded by Christmas trees with Christmas lights on every house and Christmas decorations on almost every lawn and Christmas music being piped into almost every store and Christmas commercials on every channel and Christmas specials on every sitcom and Christmas celebrations in every town.

I'm not buying it and as long as I see the same yearly domination of Christmas over every community I'll continue to believe that the people whining about the attack on Christmas are dicks, plain and simple.
 
EDIT: Apparently, Nova_C had already posted a response along the lines of what I wanted to say while I was still typing mine.

A note expanding upon what Susan said about the Christmas/Hannukah/Kwanzaa mention (spellcheck only recognized one of the three of those, btw).

I have friends of all faiths, creeds, religions, whatever you want to call them. I have yet to ever be offended if someone wishes me a Happy Hannukah/Kwanzaa/Christmas/Yule/Ramadan/etc. I find it fantastic that we live in a culture that's so diverse where people have the freedom to practice whatever religion and belief they choose to have. I don't find it at all offensive, and actually enjoy it, when someone is wishing me well, and to have a joyous holiday season. What I AM offended by, however, is when I wish someone a Happy Holiday (in an attempt to be PC and generic), and they respond with a tone of such disgust when saying "It's MERRY CHRISTMAS".

NO. It's NOT. There is MORE to this entire holiday season than JUST Christmas. It's incredibly pretentious of someone to think that THEIR holiday is the ONLY one during this ENTIRE SEASON that's important/relevant/exists. That's why it's called the "holiday season". Being in the hospitality industry, retail and restaurants before that, HOW am I supposed to know your personal beliefs and what you choose to celebrate?! Now, if I see someone wearing a cross necklace, Star of David, or something of the like, I'll be more than happy to alter my generic holiday greeting to a more personal one. Otherwise, I'm going to keep wishing you and your family well, and hope that whatever holiday you celebrate is full of happiness.

ceduke said:
On a random note, I've enjoyed buying gifts for loved ones of multiple faiths this year. I found a GORGEOUS chakra want for a pagan friend of mine who is going to LOVE it, and an incredibly beautiful Mezuzah (Please correct my spelling if it's wrong) for the hubby's stepmom.

One thing I can't stomach is this: My father abused me and my siblings growing up. Physically and mentally. We're all still trying to recover form the things he did to us. Suddenly a few years ago he found religion. Now he seems to think that all should be well with the family because he's a faithful Catholic and blah blah blah whatever other garbage. He's never apologized or tried to make amends, it's just suddenly supposed ot be OK because he thinks he's someone different now. Yeah, right.
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I HATE that "born-again Christian" mentality. My mother tried to pull that for years, even after having done cocaine while she was pregnant with me. It took her 21 years to apologize to me for that. Often times, it's those who "find" religion much later in life, and are saved by it's message that are the most preachy and pushy about their religion. I understand that it was a life-changing event for them, and they want everyone to feel as good as they do about it, but religion of any kind is not something that can be forced on someone.
 
ceduke said:
One thing I can't stomach is this: My father abused me and my siblings growing up. Physically and mentally. We're all still trying to recover form the things he did to us. Suddenly a few years ago he found religion. Now he seems to think that all should be well with the family because he's a faithful Catholic and blah blah blah whatever other garbage. He's never apologized or tried to make amends, it's just suddenly supposed ot be OK because he thinks he's someone different now. Yeah, right.
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Yeah, I've always been bothered when people suddenly "find religion", and then expect everyone else to up and change how they feel about them. Like somehow it protects them from having to take personal responsibility for their actions if they have "God" as a shield, or that their lack of religion was the reason why they committed their acts in the first place.

I'm also realizing that forgiveness is so much more than some enlightening journey to make things right with someone. Sometimes, it's just about being indifferent towards someone in order to allow yourself to move on from that relationship.

Not to steer this off topic, but I just recently re-connected with my father on Thanksgiving after 15yrs, and having remembered the last times seeing him as a child being in a similarly abusive household. It was such a strange feeling. Honestly, he could have died before I re-connected with him, and I'm not sure that I would have felt any true sadness. Even now I'm still having a really tough time placing exactly how I feel in my mind. I know that seeing him was so important for me, though. Not even because it might help re-build a relationship because, frankly, I don't even want to start that process. But it made me able to put a lot of my other relationships into a much better context. It made me truly appreciate the step-father that I had in my teenage years in a much different way, and really made me realize how strong of a feeling it must be to actually look at a man as a father and be able to have a close bond with them. Looking at my father was just a trip. To think that in an alternate reality I could look at his face as a loyal, loving, and peaceful dad just makes me see how great real dads really are.

I'm still coming down from the visit, because it was so strange to be (even if it was just an inch) taller than him and to be able to look downwards at his face. It gave me so much confidence to be able to handle this as an adult, and I think it was most important just to show him that I'm a 24yr old man with my own thoughts, lifestyle, etc... and not just the 9yr old that I was when I last saw him. It was also powerful to be able to tell him with pride the type of mother that raised me, even if it wasn't perfect, because it made me uniquely me, and far from the person that he was at my age.

Sorry to be so off topic, but it all relates to my more spiritual side, or why I believe in certain things. When I look at all that my life has been at different times, and to have such strong relationships with my close family now, it really makes me even more certain that there is a greater power, whatever it may be. It's more than evolution to describe why people are the way they are, and at the same time religion seems so far off from answering my questions too, when I consider that some of the absolute greatest people in my life either don't read the bible, or don't believe in god altogether. To me, none of that matters, though, because I'm certain that even if the bible was accurate that those people would be unconditionally seen as being the good people that they are, and that the people who do bad and hide behind religion will get theirs too.

I also agree about enjoying the diversity. We really shouldn't take anything out of schools that helps children understand the world in a better way. Every person is completely individual, but we're still so much more alike than some of us realize. Our upbringing definitely shapes us into the individuals that we are, but it should never give us titles (like Christian, Muslim, poor, etc...) that get in the way of appreciating our diversity.
 
RobbiesCornField said:
I have friends of all faiths, creeds, religions, whatever you want to call them. I have yet to ever be offended if someone wishes me a Happy Hannukah/Kwanzaa/Christmas/Yule/Ramadan/etc. I find it fantastic that we live in a culture that's so diverse where people have the freedom to practice whatever religion and belief they choose to have. I don't find it at all offensive, and actually enjoy it, when someone is wishing me well, and to have a joyous holiday season. What I AM offended by, however, is when I wish someone a Happy Holiday (in an attempt to be PC and generic), and they respond with a tone of such disgust when saying "It's MERRY CHRISTMAS".
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Especially since Christmas was created by the last true pagan roman ruler, out of pagan and christian beliefs.
 
iculatr said:
I think you left out the "NOT" part :) and I totally agree with you!

Jarrett
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RobbiesCornField said:
A note expanding upon what Susan said about the Christmas/Hannukah/Kwanzaa mention (spellcheck only recognized one of the three of those, btw).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the corrections. And it was weird, Google understood and thought nothing odd about my totally messed up spellings so I figured I was correct. I was in a rush and didn't do a more thorough spell check or proofread.

I also have a big problem with those born-again "I have seen the Light!" fanatics that now think they need to convert the world and if you don't believe exactly as they do, you're going to Hell. My brother was one of those people and ended up totally isolating himself from the rest of his family for about 30 years. I could go into multiple stories about just how hypocritical and idiotic he and his then wife were when they finally broke all connections with us, but shall refrain.

And then my husband had his revelation soon after his mother passed. He has at least stopped the hour long lectures to me and they tend to only be 10 minute ones now, but it's still annoying, especially when he starts criticizing my mother because she went back to Catholicism after my father passed. She stop practicing when she married my father, she's 80 years old and it makes her happy. Give her a break! She never pushed any particular religious belief on her children. We were baptized Lutheran, went to a Methodist Sunday school, I went to a Franciscan college for a year, and have always believed that it's what is in your heart that counts and that you don't have to be in a church to pray.
 
The proof thing has always interested me.

Proof invalidates faith insofar as it makes it no longer significant. If there is proof of god's existence, then faith has no value any longer since now you can empirically prove god. I grew up in a Christian home, so of course I went to church every Sunday and went to Sunday school and went to bible camps. The were only two things that resonated with me through all of that: The story of Christ and the importance of faith.

Faith has value because someone has faith despite a lack of evidence. So I look at all the Christians who have invested time and effort into scientifically approaching their belief structure and wonder what they're trying to accomplish. Even if you could prove God's existence, wouldn't that invalidate their faith? Not as in, make it false, but make it meaningless? Faith is the challenge, the price of admission so to speak. Without that challenge, there is no longer any adversity to belief.

When it comes down to it, though, faith and science can easily exist side by side without really clashing. Faith is about truth and science is about fact. These are not necessarily intertwined concepts. If our reality is false, for example like in the Matrix, then the facts of that observed world are not invalidated by its lack of truth. They are still valid facts within that reality. However, the truth, which science does not test, is invalidated by it. This is what religion tries to explain, the truth of things. Science tries to explain the reality of things.

Many people separate the two and believe in God while exploring science with fervor. I respect these people as truly enlightened. I may not agree with their truth, but I respect it.
 
AliCat37 said:
I think that a world religions class should be offered in high school, not just colleges. I would have loved to take that class in high school, not so much now, I just want my degree and be done haha.
:(
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I had a world religions class in high school that was taught in a one semester class that also included geography. We covered the six major religions and some of their offshoots. The next semester of the class was health. It was freshman year and was a school in Modesto California just so you know.
 
fyrefocks said:
You know what bothers me? People wanting Christians to be able to pray in school, but no other religion. Also, schools not teaching evolution because it isn't God's way.
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It is perfectly ok for any student to exercise their religious beliefs in school. It is only illegal for teachers to lead students in prayer or practice their religion in front of students.
 
tl;dr I'm agnostic.

(I apologize in advance, this is ridiculously long!)

Just spent a good few hours reading through this thread, and I must say it's nice to see some honest discussion. I know people can get defensive when they think they're being attacked, but I don't see any real attacking going on here.

That said, here is my input:

I was raised in a Christian home, I've gone to church all my life. Bible camps, Sunday school, all of that. I've felt that none of that applied to me for a very long time, but I only fairly recently told my parents that I was "agnostic" and got the reaction I expected. They were very disappointed in me and they blamed my friends and my hobbies (snakes and "furry" artwork/costuming).

This is in no way an attack on anybody here or anything they believe. This is just my personal experience with certain people, not my impression of any religion as a whole. Being brought up hearing hypocritical things from my church leaders (a certain couple in particular, though the pastor is a good sort) and from my Christian family members... I hated it. Things like women shouldn't be pastors, they were meant to just be supportive of their husbands. It doesn't matter how good you are, you're still going to burn eternally unless you believe this one specific thing without question. That a person loving someone of the same gender is an abomination and a sin. A lot of the teachings themselves just don't sit right with me. Too many contradictions and too few answers.

Therefore; I am for the time being, agnostic. I don't believe in the Christian God persay, or that belief system. Could there be some higher power at work in the universe? Possibly. Could all of this be the result of evolution? That's possible as well. Could it be true that people are reincarnated and live multiple lives here on earth? That could also be possible. Could some alien race have visited here and helped things along? It's a possibility. I don't understand it all, and I don't expect to. Some days I have trouble just accepting life itself and the idea that this isn't all some crazy dream or a "game" someone is playing. That I'm a thinking, feeling, individual me.

For now, I'll just be content that I can't know everything, and just live my life. I haven't really looked into any other religions or faiths, but I may at some point. There might be something there that I can apply to my own life.

If someone truly believe that their God is there and all powerful and wants to worship them, then power to them. If having faith improves your life and makes you happy, then I am happy for you. Just don't judge me based on that, or try to force me to change.

Pertaining to the earlier posts mid-thread about knowing right from wrong: I do personally find it somewhat insulting (even if that wasn't the intent) that someone must believe in a higher power to have a conscience and morals. Just because I don't think that an almighty being said it's wrong to kill someone, doesn't mean that I would feel that it's an okay thing to do. I agree with the self-interest view of it to an extent too. I would not like it if someone was trying to kill me. So they probably won't like it either. I shouldn't do that.


Wow, this ended up really long... sorry! Again, I in no way intend any of this to be taken as an attack to any religion or individual. This is simply my own personal experience and how I got to where I am now as far as what I do and don't believe. I know that what I described may not apply to every Christian church, and definitely not to every believer.

Happy Holiday-Of-Your-Choice!
 
I haven't found _anyone_ in my impromptu survey that was taught that all non-Christians will burn in hell. Didn't we read, here, that that was something "implemented" recently as a scare tactic, by one denomination?
 
I talked to many adults of various Christian denominations when I was searching for my beliefs in my teens and 20s. I did get varying points of view about Heaven, Hell, and the afterlife. The people who called themselves "born again Christians" seemed most vehement in their belief that everyone else would burn in Hell forever. Of course, there are lots of different views between the denominations - that is why they separated, I guess. Many seemed to believe that non-believers will just cease to exist while believers would live forever in Heaven. It all depends on who you talk to, especially when you are young and impressionable.
 
kathylove said:
I talked to many adults of various Christian denominations when I was searching for my beliefs in my teens and 20s. I did get varying points of view about Heaven, Hell, and the afterlife. The people who called themselves "born again Christians" seemed most vehement in their belief that everyone else would burn in Hell forever. Of course, there are lots of different views between the denominations - that is why they separated, I guess. Many seemed to believe that non-believers will just cease to exist while believers would live forever in Heaven. It all depends on who you talk to, especially when you are young and impressionable.
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Having most believers I know be the "born again Christians," I can second that. I grew up hearing that non-believers would burn in hell. As a kid, that terrified me and I did my best to convert my friends so they wouldn't have to burn and they could go to heaven with me.

Now, I can't imagine raising a kid and telling them at least once a week that unless their friends believe the same thing we do, that they're all going to be burning forever.
 
This is an honest question, something that I've always been curious about:

If (generic) you do not believe that people who are not christian don't go to hell... why christianity? Jesus says in the bible that he is the only way to God, if I recall correctly... so what do you think *does* happen to non-believers when they die?
 
Katey, I also think that your post was very well-worded. I guess that's how I am too, though I am erring on the side of "no being controlling the universe". I am an atheist, but still, who knows that there isn't a god or we aren't reborn?
 
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