• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

How do you prove out hets??

T

tamster

New member
Let me start by saying please be gentle with me I am really trying!

I have been trying to figure out how to prove out hets. Everytime I think I have it I test my self and am only part right grrr. I'm getting pretty frustrated:( I have read both Kathys and Dons books plus research on the net. Can anyone explain in really simple terms? If you could give some simple examples on how to prove out hets I would be very grateful. I have been told that it is simple math and once you get it, "you get it!!"
 
Well, the simplest way to prove out a het is to breed the snake to another snake that is homozygous (or homo for short) for the same trait or to a snake that is also het for the same trait.

So, if you want to prove that your anery het for amel is actually het for amel, you can breed it to an amel (or a snow because a snow is homo for both anery and amel). When the offspring hatch, how they look will tell you if the het has been proved out.

For example, if you breed the Anery het Amel to the Amel (we'll pretend that the amel has NO hets in this case to keep it simpler.)

So, you should get:
1/2 of the clutch will be normals het for amel and anery
1/2 of the clutch will be amels het for anery.

Though, the numbers will not always be exact because there are more factors involved and a portion of it is just guess work and chance.

Another example, is a pairing I did this year, of Hypo het Lavender x Hypo het Lavender.

Out of 16 eggs we should have had 4 Hypo lavender, however, we only got 1 out of the entire clutch. That one Hypo Lavender proved out the hets of both parents though, because the only way for it to have turned up, is for both parents to be het for Lavender.

I hope that helps.
 
Thanks for the info.

I've got a couple more questions:

If I own a snow ( which is amel and anery right?) and breed it to my anery the snow should bring out any anery or amel hets. in my anery?
I have several snakes that are not showing just anery & amel. They have other things in them their not just red or black they have different characteristics.
Maybe you can pm me and I can show you some pictures? I started to collect corns because they are so nice. I didn't pay attention to the hets, I bought the ones I liked. Now however m really getting interested in them and all the good stuff that creates different morphs!
\
Thanks for spending the time to help me out really apperciate it:)
 
There's a really good book, too, Cornsnake Morph Guide, which has exercises for you to practice with.
 
OK...let's see if this helps...

This year, I bred a normal male with unknown hets. to an anery motley female het. for hypo and caramel and no other known hets.

One baby popped out as an amel motley.

To your question, what does this mean? Well..the female is homo for motley and anery, and only KNOWN to be het for hypo and caramel. In order for me to get an amel motley, I need the male AND the female to be het for amel, since neither one are homo amel. It also means my male MUST be het for motley, because he is not homo motley.

So I now know, for certain, that my male is a normal het. amel and motley, and my female is anery motley het. hypo caramel and amel. I know this because in order to produce an amel motley, BOTH parents must provide the amel gene AND the motley gene.

Another example:

I have a male that is het. hypo/caramel/stripe. To prove this, I will breed him to a ghost stripe(to prove hypo and stripe) and to a butter motley(to prove caramel and further prove stripe).

If I pair this animal with the ghost stripe and I get NO stripes...it is reasonable to assume he is not het stripe. Same for hypo. It is not guaranteed, because odds CAN work against me. But in an entire clutch, I would expect to see at least one stripe and one hypo from the above pairing. If I DO get a hypo and a stripe, I know proof-positive that he IS het for hypo and stripe.

As a bonus, the above pairing will guarantee that ALL babies are het hypo/anery/stripe, because the mother is homo hypo/anery/stripe.

If I pair this male with a butter motley, I expect to see at least one caramel and at least one motley/stripe. For the same reasons above, it is not guaranteed if I only produce normals. However...the odds are reasonably in my favor to produce at least one of each trait in this pairing. Same as above...if I get one caramel and one motley/stripe, I know proof-positive he is het for these two traits.

As a bonus, again...all babies are 100% het. amel/caramel/motley because the female is homo amel/caramel/motley.

A bonus would be to pair him to a female amber stripe, however...they are out of my price range, and I don't know anyone willing to loan me a female amber stripe to prove his hets...so I will go the long route.

Basically...to prove a het, you want to breed you questioned animal to an animal that is homo for the trait you are proving. This increases your odds to a standard that all but guarantees reliability. As always with breeding hets...Murphy and the odds CAN play against you, and all normals do NOT mean the animal is not het. But ONE animal displaying the trait DOES guarantee the het status.

My goodness...I hope this didn't just further confuse you...:rolleyes: I'm bad at explaining things simply...
 
I'm starting to get it a bit more....
I'm getting it..I'm getting it! Yay
I haven't got it totaly yet though:( As you probably know my eyes are crossed right now lol
k here goes....again...

Say I have a crimson ( homo ) and I bred them with a anery with unknown hets. What the heck would I get? Normals het crimson-anery, anery het crimson , and what ever het the anery is carrying?

But I don't know what the heck a crimson carrys to match with the anerys hets? Or does it? If I had a amel (homo ) and bred it with the anery than if the anery was het for amel it would have at least 1 amel offspring the first time around?

Oh man does this even make sense??

Do I have to learn what each Homo type snake is made up from? example a snow is made from amel/anery right?
I-yi-yi
 
tamster said:
I'm starting to get it a bit more....
I'm getting it..I'm getting it! Yay
I haven't got it totaly yet though:( As you probably know my eyes are crossed right now lol
k here goes....again...

Say I have a crimson ( homo ) and I bred them with a anery with unknown hets. What the heck would I get? Normals het crimson-anery, anery het crimson , and what ever het the anery is carrying?

But I don't know what the heck a crimson carrys to match with the anerys hets? Or does it? If I had a amel (homo ) and bred it with the anery than if the anery was het for amel it would have at least 1 amel offspring the first time around?

Oh man does this even make sense??

Do I have to learn what each Homo type snake is made up from? example a snow is made from amel/anery right?
I-yi-yi
Click to expand...

Crimson is a selectively breed line of Hypo's so for genetic purposes they are simply hypo. So if you breed to a anery, assuming no hidden hets. You would get normals het hypo, anery. Now if you were to get ghost babies (homo hypo and anery) then it would prove that the crimson is het for anery and the anery het for hypo.

If you breed the amel with the anery and the anery is het for amel you would get amels het anery and normals het amel and anery. If you get snows, it would mean that the amel is het for anery and the anery is het amel (snow is homo anery, amel)

Check out Ian's Vivarium (google it and it should come up). I think the list is pretty complete and accurate and it has pics of most of the morphs as both babies and adults.

Have fun, you're getting it.
 
tamster said:
How do you prove out hets??
Click to expand...
I did what my grandmother always told me. I went to the store and got some chocolate Jell-O. She always told me..... "The proof is in the pudding." :grin01: :sidestep:
Jay :cool:
 
tamster said:
Do I have to learn what each Homo type snake is made up from? example a snow is made from amel/anery right?
I-yi-yi
Click to expand...

Oops, back to the drawing board. Homo means there are two genes of the same color at one locus. Normal, Lavender, Caramel, Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Lava, Hypo, Sunkissed, Diffused (aka bloodred), Ultra, Cinder. I may have missed some.

When you get one of each of those genes, then you have a double het. Anery + Amel = Snow. Caramel + Amel = Butter.

Ians Vivarium is an excellent site for seeing the double, triple and quad hets, in hatchling, adult, motley and stripe.
 
tamster said:
...Do I have to learn what each Homo type snake is made up from? example a snow is made from amel/anery right?
I-yi-yi
Click to expand...
Yes, it would help to know what genes compose what morphs, and what the trade names(like Crimson) are genetically, in order to start proving hets.

It would be really tough to prove a snake "het Okeetee", because there is no such thing. But if you don't know that...you might be in for a long breeding season. Just like "Crimson"...a snake cannot be "het Crimson", it can only be het hypo. Crimson is a line bred "look" form of Hypo A.
 
Thanks for all your help guys:) I now have Charles Pritzels book. Does anyone know what a cinder is made up of?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top