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How many traits can a snake carry?

BLKfly

BLKfly

New member
Can a corn snake carry more then 5 traits. Pretty much got all the genetics down except this one. Next year I plan on breeding our snakes for the first time (very excited btw), but i would like to not make a mistake rather then learn from it. We have a male aka. Sunny ( salmon snow sunspot ) and our female aka. lilly ( ultramel-or ulta anery tessera 100% het strawberry ). That would mean she could produce an ultramel anery strawberry tessera 100% het stripe. Is it possible for them to carry 6 traits or even show it and if so why don't we see any 6 trait or more snakes? Wouldn't of asked but I just can't find anything about it.
 
Not that long ago, 4-trait animals were very very uncommon. It takes time, and good odds, to get them.

For example, two years ago I bred a pair of aneries het for hypo, charcoal, lavender together, and I'm pretty sure I got the quad-gene animal. Those odds were 1 in 64, and I had something like 12 eggs. That was very good luck.

The odds of getting a single gene animal from a pair of hets is 1 in 4. A 2 gene animal from hets is 1 in 16. A 3 gene animal from hets (like my Bansidhe) is 1 in 64. A 4 gene animal from hets is 1 in 256. A 5 gene animal from hets is 1 in 1024. The odds increase exponentially. In a few years I'll be producing normals het for 8 different genes. The odds of me getting a baby that expresses all 8 genes from one of their clutches is 1 in 65,536 or 0.0015%

From your pairing, ALL your babies will be either ultramel aneries, or a mix of snows and ultramel aneries. About half of them will be strawberries (but it may be hard to tell which), and about half of them will be tessera as well. So your odds of getting an ultramel strawberry tessera is either 1 in 4, or 1 in 8.
 
Well I like to know what I'm getting into before i put up pairings. It would be better for me if she does end up being just an ultra instead of ultramel. I would have a 1-4 chance of getting an ultramel anery strawberry tessera. Ultramel anery 100% het tessera strawberry stripe, ultramel anery strawberry 100% het tessera stripe, ultramel anery tessera 100% het strawberry stripe, ultramel anery strawberry tessera 100% het stripe. So I'm hoping she turns up to just be an ultra. I'm not breeding hets to other hets, the only het is strawberry on the female. I just didn't know if they could carry more than 5. The more hets you have the less chance you have. So I'm keeping mine low, 1-4 out of what could be 10 or more eggs don't sound to bad for getting a 5 trait het stripe. If in fact they can carry that many.
 
Your animals will either be tessera or not. They can't be 'het' for it, in the same way as we refer to them being 'het' for a recessive trait. Technically, those displaying tessera will be 'hets' because they are heterozygous, meaning they have 'different' genes at that locus. But as it is a dominant trait, if they are not displaying it they don't have the gene.

And they can carry almost as many traits as currently exist. Some traits are mutations off the same genetic locations... like ultra, and amel or motley and stripe, or hypo and strawberry. So you can't have an animal that is displaying the amel trait that is also het for ultra... because there's no room for an ultra gene.

But you could definitely have something like a hypo amel anery charcoal lavender caramel sunkissed diffused lava dilute tessera.
 
I knew about the alleles not being able to be het on the genotype but I did not know that tessera was not het unless displayed in the phenotype. That would explain a lot. Thanks for clarifying how many they can carry btw. The corn calc kind of confused me when they said I had a 50/50 chance of getting an ultramel anery strawberry tessera and all the snakes would come out tessera. I knew that not to be true, but with no help from that I had to try and figure it out myself. Definitely nice to know now that tessera can't be a genotype. Also according to the stupid calc if she is an ultra and he has amel do they combine so each baby would be ultramel? The damn calc on iansvivarium got me all confused lol
 
Tessera is a genotype, it just can't be treated as a recessive het. A snake either is, or isn't, a tessera.

If your female is ultra, when paired to a snow because of the amel gene, yes every baby will be an ultramel.
 
I got ya, thank you very much for clarifying everything. Still having a 1-4 or a 1-8 chance isn't to shabby. I'm glad you corrected me on the tessera thing though, that would of been embarrassing lol looks like I gotta brush up on my punnet square.
 
Part of the problem lies in how we use terms like dominant and recessive. It's usually inferred that they express a relationship to wild type alleles, but this isn't explained very well to newbies who might not know much about genetics starting out, and it gets more complicated than that. For example, motley is recessive to wild and allelic to stripe, so that we can have an animal that is genetically motley stripe. Motley is also dominant to stripe, so a genetically motley stripe corn will have a motley phenotype.
 
Tell me about it lol I had asked a question similar to that about my fire motley/stripe. They called it 3 traits when I thought it should be 4. I'm really starting to understand everything, I have a lot of time to research. I just want to wait a year until I know all there is to know. The hardest part for me at least is being able to know what phenotype traits a snake is carrying. I definitely don't want to be one of those people that sells a snake and gives you false information about him or her. Best to be patient and learn then to rush in and make a bad name for yourself.
 
Since I got people here that know lol is amel dominant to ultra and strawberry dominant to hypo? Or is it the other way around. Its hard to find clear answers about some things.
 
I tend to differentiate between "trait" and "gene" also. Amel and stripe are individual genotypes or mutations, while the thick banding of an extreme okeetee is a trait; it's polygenic. Any phenotype that cannot be outcrossed and recovered through simple Mendelian inheritance I consider a trait.

Ultramel and hypoberry appear to be incomplete dominant in that they both have some amount of visual expression so that their phenotypes are somewhere in between the two, similar to how red and yellow pigments together look orange. This is less obvious in hypoberry until you look at it under a microscope.
 
That's actually a much easier way to look at it, because it does get confusing. Thanks for the info, I'm gonna keep studying. Lots to learn
 
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