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Hypo snows and Hypo amels?

ChaosCat

New member
I've been playing around with the Mpmorpher, trying to figure out who to pair up next time around. I was thinking of trying to pair up 2 amels, both het ghost.

The mpmorpher comes up with this:

1/16 Snow
1/8 Snow, het. Hypo
1/8 Snow, Hypo
1/4 Amel, het. Ghost
1/16 Amel, het. Anery A
1/8 Amel
1/16 Amel, Hypo, het. Anery A
1/8 Amel, het. Hypo
1/16 Amel, Hypo

So what would a hypo amel or a hypo snow look like?
 
as far as I know, a hypo amel is just assumed to look like another amel. Though your chances are slim to get that one hypo amel for sure. I would get excited about that hypo snow though. triple morphs are always nice to have in a breeding colony. A hypo snow (aka coral snows) have more of a coral pink saddle color to them then most snows. They're pretty easy to distinguish. Alot of people think that they are too similar to bubblegum snows, but the pink in bubblegums is more like cotton candy pastel pink. the pink in hypo snows is more like the color of salmon meat. What I'm trying to work on is a hypo opal. I don't know if they'll look any different yet, but I'll let you know when next season rolls around.
 
Here is a photo of a Hypo Snow, AKA Coral Snow. All of the ones that I produce are very pink, like was stated above. The other photo is a comparison photo of an Amel, Amel Lava, and Lava hypo. There is a difference between an Amel Lava and Amel, within clutches, but an Amel Lava does look very similar to other orange Amels. In this comparison photo, the Amel Lava looks much more like a Lava than the Amel.

I have some Hypo Amels and they are all very bright Orange, and very shiny, like a Sunglow would be. I do not agree that Amel mask Hypo, but if you don’t know it, or if you compare them to other amels they may look very similar. Hypo does reduce the black, but it also has an effect on the other colors as well, so when it is combined with Amel, the amel is usually much oranger. In the examples above with the Amel Lava, the clutch mates are Amel Okeetee, which are very red, so the difference is very clear. It is not so clear if you compare them to other Amels that are more orange.

I think the only way that you can recognize a Hypo Amel, is if you know what genes the parents are carrying and when you compare them to clutch mates. A breeding like Amel het Hypo X Amel het Hypo, will most likely produce a recognizable phenotype of Hypo Amel in the clutch. A breeding of Hypo het Amel X Hypo Het Amel, would produce known Hypo Amels, because all amels would have to be homo for hypo as well.

It will be very interesting to see what a Hypo Opal looks like. Opals in general are beginning to look very, very pink these days with selective breeding. I don’t see how we could improve on them, but you might get a Neon Pink Opal!!
 

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Interesting! Thanks for the photos. I'll be hopefully breeding them both in a couple years. Should make for an interesting selection :)
 
I have a pair of Cinnamons ( hypo corn X emoryi) both het for amel. Last year they produced a couple of average looking Creamsicles. This year they produced one very bright Creamsicle. I sold her at the Hillsborro show. I know the people that bought her visit this forum, maybe they can post some pics.
I have the feeling that the hypo gene affects each snake in different degrees. I doubt there is enough visual difference to tell if an amel is hypo with any certainty, natural variation in amels is just too vast.
I agree with Joe, hypo affects all of the colors to some degree. It's just that the most obvious color (black) is gone in an amel.
 
Agree with the enhanced pink in coral snows - we have several confirmed from ghost to ghost breedings and all showed increased pink to varying degrees. Seems brighter in males than females. The females are great to have in a breeding program - triple homozygous makes for nice capacity to check potential mates for hidden recessives and these females are great to pair up with other morphs - to get quad and quint het offspring.

Interesting discussion on the hypo amels - similar to discussions going on within honduran milksnake groups now - where they are termed hybinos - no confirmed ones have yet been produced. Hypo het amel X hypo het amel appears to be the best way to go to be sure - any amels produced would have to be hybinos. This morph is known in Gopher snakes and apparently is lighter orange than the normal amelanistic. Some simliar light orange amel hondos have been produced, but have not been proven hybino in breeding trials yet.

Am working toward producing some in corns (and creamsicles) in the future. Sure would love to see pics of that bright one you produced last year Clint - hope the people who have it will post pics!

mary v.
 
So hypo isn't neccesarily masked by amel, but the similarites are so close that to be sure, you would pretty much HAVE to know the genetics of the snake, correct? It's good to know that. I know just enough about the different types of hypo to get me by, as they are very confusing. Details on the different types (Lava, ultra, etc) completely confuse me, but i always read that hypo was masked by a few morphs. All I can remember of that is amel.

A bright pink opal would be nice though! I'll have to see what comes up. And I'll definitly post pics if I get anything interesting.
 
This may be true of hypoA, but keep in mind that the other "types of hypo" are only classed together by us because we notice a similarity between them: they appear to reduce the "darkness" of the morph.

It doesn't necessarily follow that any trait we call "hypo" or "hypo-like" will or will not be masked by amel. It depends on a lot of factors, and each one is going to have its differences...

I agree that it seems like amel doesn't mask hypoA, at least not all the time, or at least not all of its effects.

Ultra cannot be masked by amel. It is an allele of amel... an amel cannot be carrying any ultra genes, so there's no way for any "masking" to take place. ;)

Lava + amel looks interesting. As Joe said, you probably couldn't pick lava amels out of a random group of amelanistic corns, but it sounds like they definitely stand out from their siblings. What will "snows" that came from ice ghosts look like?

It'll be interesting to see what happens with sunkissed + amel. I have a trio that are het for amel and sunkissed (...and caramel and motley. :) ) Sunkissed hatchlings don't exactly look "hypo" to me, there's something very different about their colors. Will it still happen when they're amelanistic?
 
unfortunately Serp, my knowledge of hypo is pretty much limited to hypo type A, which defnitly cuts back from the possiblities of different hypo crosses, but I'd rather stick with what I know for now. However, most of what I learned about hypos was in your book, which does help, but thats where is got the info that hypo A and sunkissed is assumed to look like another amel when crossed with amel. I defintily notice that the colors are lighter and brighter, but you're right...when most people think hypo, they think "less dark" (read black) so its confusing when trying to apply the same info when it comes to a snake that lacks all melanin in the first place. I guess I'm one of them.
 
I just sold a pair of yearling hypo amels last month. I know they were hypo amels becuase the parents were both hypo. They looked just as Joe described bright orange.
Jynx- Can't wait to see your hypo opals. I produced hets this year and will have to wait about three for hatchlings. Please remember to post pics if you get any in 2005 . I will be looking forward to seeing them.
 
I have some hypo snows and hypo snow motleys. They are, by far, my favorite snows. Unfortunately, I only have one adult hypo snow. My plans are to breed him to a ghost motley next season. The hypo snow is possible het motley, so I should get 25% hypo snow motleys, 25% ghost motleys het amel, 25% hypo snows het motley, and 25% ghosts het amel and motley.

The hypo snows and hypo snow motleys I bought this year are simply amazing. I really look forward to seeing how they look as they mature.
 
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