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I absolutely hate it when...

Jrgh17

Are we there yet?
I absolutely hate it when you post a snake for sale, and someone emails or PMs you to ask "What's the lowest you'll sell to me for?" Note, they're not curious about the asking price of the snake. Essentially they're trying to haggle the price of the animal without doing any of the actual work of haggling.

Now, it's quite a different story when someone says "I know you listed it at $$$, but what about selling for $$?" At least in that case, they're making an offer.

I know it comes with the territory. I have absolutely no problem with haggling over the price of a particular snake (I have, after all, been to various overseas marketplaces). Just something about the way it's brought up really pisses me off, and I needed to share. :)
 
I wouldn't take it too personal, I'd just reply with something like the price is firm, or if you really need to make the sale tell them what price you'd be willing to sell at. I run into it more at the flea market and running my landscape business than selling snakes, but I think the reason people do it is less to be lazy than to try to get a good price - if they make an offer, it might be more than you would have been willing to accept.
 
I don't like it very much either, but like you said, it comes with the territory. It's being cheap, plain and simple. And while I can understand it, I guess, I agree that making an actual offer seems much more professional. I feel bad making lower-than-list offers, but I've done it. If the seller jumps on the offer, sometimes there's a nagging little cheapskate voice in my head that says: "you could've gone lower". But that nagging voice doesn't turn into regret; a snake's worth as much to me as I'm willing to pay for it. My offer reflects what I'm willing to pay. I usually go out of my way to make it clear that I don't EXPECT the offer to be accepted, and that I fully understand if it ISN'T.
 
When people do that, I usually state the listed price. They are almost never a serious buyer, anyway. They are just playing around and shopping for the deal too good to be true....and probably ask that question to almost everyone the see an add from.

Like Roy said, sometimes a cheaper price offer is jumped on, but that has never bothered me. In my mind, a sell can occur when the value the animal has to me is equal to or greater than the value of the snake to the owner. In other words, if I offer an amount equal to or greater than the minimum amount he thinks the snake is worth to him (or her, of course), then a sale is possible. If I offer more than the minimum he would take? WHO CARES? It is still not more than the snake is worth to me?? I'm with Roy on this one - the snake is worth TO ME what I offer for it. If it is more than necessary, then the buyer is happy. I have a snake, so I'm happy. Where is the down side to that??

Wanna know what ticks me off even more? What about the number of email replies you get asking "Is that snake still available?" You can reply that it is, and you never hear from them again. That isn't too big of a deal on this website (still happens), but it is a VERY common occurrence on one of the other classifieds I post on. Grrrr! Disgusting. Waste of time. :(

....or the ones that ask questions that are already answered in the ad. This usually deals with age, diet, etc.
 
How about the ones that agree to the deal, give you all the required shipping info, set a shipping date and then when it comes time to pay, say they don't have all of it now, but will send you the rest after they get the snake and their next paycheck.
 
Wanna know what ticks me off even more? What about the number of email replies you get asking "Is that snake still available?" You can reply that it is, and you never hear from them again. That isn't too big of a deal on this website (still happens), but it is a VERY common occurrence on one of the other classifieds I post on. Grrrr! Disgusting. Waste of time. :(

Amusingly enough, I just answered that exact question by PM on Fauna. I figure for every... 20 bogus replies I get, someone should have an actual interest.

How about the ones that agree to the deal, give you all the required shipping info, set a shipping date and then when it comes time to pay, say they don't have all of it now, but will send you the rest after they get the snake and their next paycheck.

THAT would royally tick me off. How have you dealt with that situation? The best I can think of is saying you'll hold the snake with their down payment?

I'm actually doing a payment plan with someone on here right now, but I don't really think he was below-the-belted like the example above. I asked about making payments right off the bat, and offered a little more for the pair than he was originally asking. :shrugs: To me, it's all about how you present yourself.

I don't think there's anything shady or shameful about offering a lower price to the seller. I've had people send me emails saying "I know this is less than you were asking, but..." If I don't like the offer, I turn it down.

I actually sold my kingsnake recently to a kid that lives in town. His mom and him answered an ad I put on Craigslist, and they came over to check out the snake. I ended up letting the snake go for less than I was originally asking, mainly because I saw that he really loved the snake, and literally could not afford anything more. Mom was willing to pay for supplies and any vet bills, but he had to get the animal himself (teaching responsibility and whatnot). After he held the king for about a minute, he sat down on my living room floor and started counting out change and crumpled $1s from his piggy bank. I started cracking up laughing, but it was also very touching in a way.

I guess for me, it really does come down to laziness and my perception of how much the buyer wants the animal. Are they just trying to knock a bit off the price to see whether or not they can get it? Or are they really interested?
 
I've only had maybe one or two ask me to sell something cheaper than my listed price. Never hear from them again either way. I've also had the situation, more often, where you answer all their questions and then specifically ask them to let me know their interest either way. Usually don't hear from them either. :uhoh:

How about the ones that agree to the deal, give you all the required shipping info, set a shipping date and then when it comes time to pay, say they don't have all of it now, but will send you the rest after they get the snake and their next paycheck.
I've had this happen twice. The worst was 3 years ago I had a group of about 6 adult proven snakes for a really good price. Two days before shipping, when he was going to pay me, low and behold his furnace went out . . . not a big deal, life sucks and gets in the way of the best laid plans . . . wouldn't have bothered me in the least except for the fact that two weeks later he was posting pictures of some new adult snakes he'd just gotten the week before. Whatever happened to honesty?!

On the other end of it, I've had people I know PM or email me asking about snakes that I've got for sale. People I've either bought from or sold to that have asked about cheaper prices. I have no problem working out deals with them. I know them. I know they're not trying to get dirt cheap prices. I don't mind being generous with people that I've dealt with before and I (believe I) know their character.

Good discussion topic.
D80
 
How about the ones that agree to the deal, give you all the required shipping info, set a shipping date and then when it comes time to pay, say they don't have all of it now, but will send you the rest after they get the snake and their next paycheck.

THAT would royally tick me off. How have you dealt with that situation? The best I can think of is saying you'll hold the snake with their down payment?

The first time I had to deal with this was from a wholesaler that I had been doing business with for several years. Since I had no problem with him in the past, I went through with the deal and he did pay me the money owed on time and when he said he would. The next time he did the same thing, but the payment was not forth-coming as promised and I had to pester the heck out of him for over 2 years to get my money. I finally did, but at the cost of my first PayPal account as he was having customers from his new business pay me instead of him...and what he was selling ended up being something PayPal had a problem with. It was flowers but when one sale ended up being poppy flowers, stupid PayPal considered that drug paraphernalia and "closed" my account (but they didn't fully close it, but I can't use it either).

So the next time someone did that, I considered it a down payment (non-refundable if the final payment was not given when I was told it would be) and I've handled each additional situation the same way.
 
I hate negotiating price. I had to quit Girl Scouts because I couldn't bring myself to ask for money for cookies. lol Surely I would not do well in a foreign marketplace. I just made a big snake purchase and I had a hard time asking about price; it took about two weeks before I got the nerve up to ask. I know and like the sellers and I didn't want to seem disrepectful. They found my hesitance amusing. I guess because they deal with so many buyers.
I have a table at a local reptile show and I dread when my best friend can't do the show with me. I teasingly call him a money whore because he has no problem at all negotiating prices. I've used his skill in the past to do my dirty work.lol Even then it is embarrassing to me.
Here's something I find unexcusable. At the last show a forum member, Ron, was at the show with his girls. It's a 50 mile drive to get to and from the show for him. He came to meet a buyer for one of his beautiful woma babies. They had already spent time emailing questions and pictures back and forth and negotiating price. The met was essentially a delivery of the agreed upon animal and a transfer of funds. Ron met the guy, showed him the snake and suddenly the animal was not what the guy wanted anymore. The same animal he bugged Ron about all week! Needless to say Ron was pissed. With today's high gas prices, a 50 mile trip is not to be taken lightly. The buyer could have just called and said he wasn't interested and saved Ron a trip.
I guess asking for a lower price isn't necessarily a bad thing. Like most of you have already said, you can always refuse the offer. I think it bothers me because I put a lot of effort and time into my animals. And maybe selling for a "steal" would feel wrong. Or make me feel cheated. For me, it's a work in progress.
Terri
 
I am a big negotiator, however, that being said....I never do it with a single animal. I might ask for a lower price if I am buying a group. I'm not really sure I have even done that on the internet...more of a show thing. I hate it when we vend and all these people want to low price all my animals.......if it's marked at 60 then I am not going to sell it for 10.
 
Some people are annoying...plain and simple. I get PM's and emails from people all the time asking for pics, lower prices, free shipping, hold the animals until I decide, partial payments but ship the snake first and a bunch of other things. It is irritating...especially when my ad usually states....no pics, no holds etc. Some people don't pay attention and that is how it is.

And I, too, get the emails with all sorts of 'interest' and when I take the time to answer questions and send photos.....nothingness.

Part of selling I guess. Can see why there are some people out there that bypass the whole public relations side of it.
 
Here's something I find unexcusable. At the last show a forum member, Ron, was at the show with his girls. It's a 50 mile drive to get to and from the show for him. He came to meet a buyer for one of his beautiful woma babies. They had already spent time emailing questions and pictures back and forth and negotiating price. The met was essentially a delivery of the agreed upon animal and a transfer of funds. Ron met the guy, showed him the snake and suddenly the animal was not what the guy wanted anymore. The same animal he bugged Ron about all week! Needless to say Ron was pissed. With today's high gas prices, a 50 mile trip is not to be taken lightly. The buyer could have just called and said he wasn't interested and saved Ron a trip.

He should have NEVER done that without a nonrefundable deposit. You're just setting yourself up for trouble. The only time I don't require a deposit for a delivery like this is if I've dealt with an individual multiple times before and they have 100% come through each and every time.
 
> And I, too, get the emails with all sorts of 'interest' and when I take the time to answer questions and send photos.....nothingness.

Yeah - a "Thanks for the reply. I'll let you know if I want the animal." would be SO appreciated, wouldn't it? At least you'd know they GOT the email. Herpers wonder why so many sellers give one word replies or have poor communication skills. Sometimes, this is just BAD sellers/businessmen, but I suspect more and more it is because they don't expect to hear back from you no matter HOW they answer. Why waste the time answering emails the people don't even acknowledge????

I get tired of the lies. Let's see.....I've had single people tell me their wife won't let them buy the snake they committed to buying (this is common!). I won't even mention the number of surprise car/house/surgical problems. My favorite is the guy emailing me from the hospital on a borrowed computer that could access the hospitals wireless......from the same IP he used at home the previous times......lol.

Maybe we should start a thread on the BEST STORIES people tell us to back out of purchases......lol. True or not.....

He should have NEVER done that without a nonrefundable deposit. You're just setting yourself up for trouble. The only time I don't require a deposit for a delivery like this is if I've dealt with an individual multiple times before and they have 100% come through each and every time.

I agree...unless he was going to the show anyway....BUT we are only hearing one side of the story. What if the snake didn't look as good as it did in the image? You know cameras sometimes make a snake look better or worse than it really is. If the buyer saw the snake, and the colors weren't what he expected based on the image, then he has the right to refuse that animal.

With that said, I don't deliver an animal more than a couple miles from my house without some form of payment, either. If the guy genuinely thinks the pictures were misleading, I'd likely give him the refund back in full. At most, there'd be a minor travel expense retained. Doubt it, though.
 
Man, this stuff is all just really par for the course. And it puts the seller in a "damned if you do, and damned if you don't" position. Generally you can tell the people who have been in this the longest by the length of their policy page on their website. :) You can either choose to be open to someone taking far too much advantage of you, or you can choose to appear to be paranoid with your dealings with the public. It's rather difficult to find what you would consider as the perfect balance. Even something as simple as requiring a deposit involves more gray area than you would like to think about. And it apparently means something different to everyone who reads that term. If you keep the deposit, regardless of the circumstances, you may be REALLY subjecting someone to a hardship, but on the other hand, heck so many people will lie their asses off just to get their money back, and you really have no way of telling who is being truthfull or not. So you either assume everyone is lying and stick to your policy, or you might as well not even have the policy in the first place.

Heck, I recall someone begging off a deposited order claiming he was injured in an accident and later that very next day noticed him making inquiries on a purchase with someone else. Obviously with the extra cash now to spend on those other animals.

One fun little trick people will do is to tell you that they want a handful of animals and ask that you hold them while they think about it a bit. While they are doing the same thing with a few other sellers, trying to negotiate the best deal and decide which animals they really want. Doesn't matter to them that they are tying up YOUR sales in the process. Which is one reason I never offer to send people individual photos of my animals for sale. They will want several so they can pick the one they want, which means in the meantime I am expected to hold ALL of them back awaiting their decision. Believe it or not, I have actually had people ask me to send photos of ALL of a particular cultivar I have available, so they could pick out the ONE they wanted. Like my time was completely without any value and inconsequential to their wants.

Heck, I remember in the old days where I would actually maintain a list of people claiming they wanted something and ask me to contact them when they became available. Boy, was THAT ever a waste of time and effort. I got tired REAL quick of hearing excuses of why they couldn't buy them right now. So that is something I don't do any longer.

Generally speaking, I don't even pay attention to anyone saying they want something until money has crossed the table. Got tired of hearing the excuses and lies.

Basically what it all boils down to is to not commit yourself to anything unless the customer is willing to commit as well. And I mean FIRMLY commit, not just SAY they are committing. It just discourages me to see how valueless many people treat their WORD these days, yet they fail to understand why other people now place so little value on what they say.
 
I agree with you Rich for the most part. I do believe the very definition of a deposit is compensate the seller if the deal doesn't go through. I would think that all deposits should be non refundable. I personally would not even ask for a refund.

How much time do you want to put into a deal? Do you want to send 200 pictures and what ever else they need to make a decision? I guess that depends on the individual seller, how much time have you got, and how bad do you want the sell. But you're right, you need to find a happy medium.

I am much more helpful toward the end of the season than I am at the beginning. By Christmas I'm ready to be sold out. In July, you can take my price or leave it.
 
Well, I have done a few of the above mentioned situations. The kid counting out the money thing, that has come up a couple times, I know that people perhaps shouldn't be acquiring pets when they likely don't have money for vet bills, but I'm a sucker and think EVERY kid who seems responsible enough to care for a pet SHOULD have one.. lol

As for shipping and paying later, I've been crazy lucky, but I've been known to do it. I usually try to make sure I have at least my bare bones cost in the bank account before I ship and that way, if the person does bugger off or bounce a cheque I'm covered. I'll only let it happen so many times though...

Funny thing was that I got my first bounced cheque the other day, and it was from a FRIEND! lol! <They paid the total plus NSF quite quickly though thank goodness!>

As for offering. I think I have asked a few times on what the absolute lowest someone would go for me, but that was to someone I considered a bit of a friend as I've dealt with them often and spent thousands.

Something I find just as annoying if not more, is when someone asks if you want to buy a snake of theirs, you ask how much, then they reply what's it worth?!?! PISS ME OFF! Do your own homework for goodness sakes! I work hard to keep up on going market rates for animals, it's not my fault you don't know what value your snake should be worth!

Stupid thing is I'm too damn honest, and usually tell them what it's worth market value, but then give them an offer of what the animal might be worth to me. I've lost out on a few animals that way :( They hear what a pet store or another breeder might pay, off they go and usually I'm on the money and they get what I advised the snake was worth... I guess in the end it works out for the best because the particular animals wasn't worth the higher value to me... ug.. <sigh>

Well, that's all the time I have to waste ranting! lol

Rebecca
 
I hate negotiating price. I had to quit Girl Scouts because I couldn't bring myself to ask for money for cookies. lol Surely I would not do well in a foreign marketplace. I just made a big snake purchase and I had a hard time asking about price; it took about two weeks before I got the nerve up to ask. I know and like the sellers and I didn't want to seem disrepectful. They found my hesitance amusing. I guess because they deal with so many buyers.
I have a table at a local reptile show and I dread when my best friend can't do the show with me. I teasingly call him a money whore because he has no problem at all negotiating prices. I've used his skill in the past to do my dirty work.lol Even then it is embarrassing to me.
Here's something I find unexcusable. At the last show a forum member, Ron, was at the show with his girls. It's a 50 mile drive to get to and from the show for him. He came to meet a buyer for one of his beautiful woma babies. They had already spent time emailing questions and pictures back and forth and negotiating price. The met was essentially a delivery of the agreed upon animal and a transfer of funds. Ron met the guy, showed him the snake and suddenly the animal was not what the guy wanted anymore. The same animal he bugged Ron about all week! Needless to say Ron was pissed. With today's high gas prices, a 50 mile trip is not to be taken lightly. The buyer could have just called and said he wasn't interested and saved Ron a trip.
I guess asking for a lower price isn't necessarily a bad thing. Like most of you have already said, you can always refuse the offer. I think it bothers me because I put a lot of effort and time into my animals. And maybe selling for a "steal" would feel wrong. Or make me feel cheated. For me, it's a work in progress.
Terri
What pissed me off even more was the fact the guy barely glanced at the snake and said "That's really not what I am looking for".... Excuse me????? The 400 pictures I took for you werent enough??????? AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH
My girls and I did get some of Terri's birthday cake though!:dancer:
 
I had this happen- Someone wanted me to split a group. He said he would pay full price (and then some) for a 1.1 pair and then a lone female (as opposed to a 2.3 and another 1.1). So I'm nice- I split the pairs. And he ASKS FOR A DISCOUNT! "Well they look smaller than I thought- I won't pay full price" After he promises to pay full price (and hints at a little extra for me being nice and splitting), and I already turn other people away! Oh and I was SO mad! Um, not doing that again. Like ever. :angry01: I hate it when I try to be nice and I get screwed.
 
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