I feel like such a murderer :P

[Camille]

Hey guys. A woman approached me since her kid had bough 2 mice and they had babies and they were overflowed with mice and told me i could have the whole gang to feed my snakes. So i went to get them. I also promissed the kid id keep the two adults and one of the children as breeders and wouldnt kill them(hey after all their his pets and he loves them). Anyways last night when i brought them home i killed my first batch of mice. i didnt count but killed adleast 16 mice. And the two females i kept are both pregnant. One of them is ready to pop any time more mice for me. Also a good thing since the ones someone bought for me are just cheep live feeder mice and one of them died on me. And i have no idea why and its happenned to me before with another 2 i had bought(cheep feeder mice yet again). The mice i have now are albino mice and seem more hardy than the tiny feeders i have now. Ill probably stick with them and just feed my other two to my snakes . Unless the female actually gives me mice. then well i might keep em for a while.They just dont look very healthy. The male does mind you but the female i had before that died didnt. Im not too shure about the female thats left. Well see.

 

[TandJ]

You feel like a murderer? Your kidding right? You are feeding some other animals, and you made a concious choice to put them down before they are constricted.. I might think you are kind of nutty if you said you got absolute pleasure out of watching the snake kill its prey.. I watch, but I don't get no pleasure or laughs out of it. Perhaps if you feel so strongly about ( you said you feel like a murderer ) this kind of a hobby is not something for you, but that is your choice, and I am not going to be critical. Unfortunantly when feeding snakes, you have to leave your feelings aside, if feeding is done in a humane way ( to me it doesn't have to consist of prekilled prey, but thats me.. )

Regards

 

[MastersHaven]

CAUTION... Opinionated Post....

Let me first apologise for what I am about to say and in no way is this intended towards any one person here on this site or anywhere else for that matter BUT seeing things like this being said really gets to me.

...Perhaps if you feel so strongly about ( you said you feel like a murderer ) this kind of a hobby is not something for you...

Maybe I'm just in "A MOOD" with the Holidays and such being upon us but why is it that someone is not allowed to have a conscience? I am a fellow rescuer of not only snakes but of most all small animals and some large animals ... I have had to have animals euthanized... and kull severely kinked babies or feed the occasional live pinkie...

and YES it does make some feel like a "MURDERER" but in no way does it mean that they (myself included) are in the wrong "Hobby"... all it means is that we ALL are different and with a different level of conscience... maybe it will just take some of us longer than others to become at ease with doing so... maybe we will never get use to it but that shouldn't keep us from enjoying our "hobby". It's just one of the unpleasant parts of life we have to deal with, not unlike any other aspect of life.

I sympathise with Camille... these were a child's pets that she was given... yes, in her mind, they may have been intended for food from the start but there is still that thought in the back of your mind. BUT she knew what she had to do and she did it... that still don't make it any easier...

why is it that people are compelled to judge others...

"humane - smu'mane -- we do what we have to do to provide for our animals and it's no more inhumane to feed live than it is to kull it off first... some snakes wont eat anything but live... should we condemn those folks for inhumane practices?

I think not....

we do what we have to do....
don't come down on someone for having a conscience!
there are a hell-of-alot worse things someone could have!

 

[BeckyG]

I really got the impression that the murderer comment was made tongue in cheek. I did notice something that resembled a smiley face up there...

 

[TandJ]

Who judged who?

Personally, I think your intent was to point your finger at me, that leaves three pointing back at you. You’re assuming you know the type of person I am from reading my post, when in fact you know nothing about me when you have not even scratched the surface. Your assuming I have no feelings or compassion for the animal that is about to be lunch, your wrong there. It’s not a nice feeling to feed live to a snake, but pretty all they get is live, but I know the snake has to eat, so I can reason the life of the animal was not in vain. After all, what did I buy mice for to begin with? Your assumption is that I judged the original poster, sorry, the only judgment I see was directed at me, no matter how much you try to cover your tracks by saying it is not directed at anyone, but it is beyond obvious.

Kull is correctly spelled cull. I am not culling my mice stock out, they are breed for sustenance. I care for the mice as well as I care for any other animal. You’re assuming I have very little consciousness, and that is very hard for you to even begin to substantiate without even knowing me, which you couldn't possible do from reading a simple post.

My point was simple, if it causes a person so much distress to feed a critter, maybe you might find something else to do like stamp collecting or sewing, where life on life’s terms will not bother you to badly, or perhaps a nice prescription may help you through the bad days. Your assuming I have very little heart about the ending of an animals life, and like you, I have had to put a few animals down, which has caused more than a tear jerk from me, obviously I have feelings. If you clued in, I agreed with you, that we do what we have to do. So your argument was pretty well a moog point, leaving me wondering why you even bothered to get up into my grill.

In your esteemed words... we do what we have to do....
don't come down on someone for having a conscience!
there are a hell-of-alot worse things someone could have! My point exactly in response to you. Now please back off my shoes.

Regards

 

[starsevol]

orrrrrrrrrrrr
you can just buy frozen and thaw once a week....
which is what I do...
no conscience involved..no suffering witnessed..no killing...
just a plastic wrapped package..
like going to the grocery store....

 

[Taceas]

Good job Camille, I'd be happy if someone gave me a slew of mice intended for snake food. Especially for free. =P

Nice post LeAnn...this time of year I've got a short fuse as well it seems like, so I tend to get more opinionated. Plus, its cold out and I don't have other things to do so I spend more time on here. But to me it sounded judgemental as well. And like Becky said, I think the title was meant to be tongue in cheek to an extent.

TJ, as usual, you're reading the wrong way into things. I'd know I'd feel guilty if a kid gave me his 'pet' mice with the intention that they were to be used for snake food. I'd think of that kid knowing every one of them as I was feeding them off. But I'd still do what I had to do.

I don't think Camille was broken up as can be over killing mice. I think she felt bad more so because they were "pets" rather than just food at one time. So yeah, your post seemed very judgemental and still does: "People who get sad about killing mice shouldn't have snakes." I love my chickens, but I still kill and eat them. :shrugs:

I find nothing wrong with killing the mice before feeding. I do this every feeding day from crawlers to adults, I don't want to take a chance with my snakes being bitten however rare of a chance it may be. I don't feed live simply because I'm too lazy or squeamish to bop mice on the head.

And before you correct people on their spelling mistakes, have a look at yours in chat. Spell check making us look like good spellers doesn't count. I don't use it as a crutch, myself. If I make a typo, oh well.

 

[ChiaraMom]

i couldn't get a proper sized mouse for my kiki for two weeks. (she should be on hoppers but i had to feed her 2 pinkies.) so i decided to pick up a weanling from the petstore. a live one! as my bf had doubt about it, i said firmly i will prekill it, using a method i read on this forum. namely bending the neck backwards.

well, when it came to execution... the mouse was falling asleep when i picked up the box. a little hariy ball. i started to feel really guilty. but still determined to prekill it. but the mouse just crawls about and wouldn't let me get a hold of it.

to make a long story short, my bf did it with one punch on the head. he is my hero now. but i know i have to learn to do it. i just need some practices.

i wish we could have some good reliable online stores selling frozen mice over here :-(

 

[TandJ]

"TJ, as usual, you're reading the wrong way into things. I'd know I'd feel guilty if a kid gave me his 'pet' mice with the intention that they were to be used for snake food. I'd think of that kid knowing every one of them as I was feeding them off. But I'd still do what I had to do. "

Why are you argueing? I do what I have to do to. Its the same damn point I made. Does it not make sense, that if you feel remorse and terrible guilt about offing some mice maybe this is not something for you to do? I really don't care what the original poster does with the mice she recieved, she could send them to DisneyLand for all I care, how is that being judgmental? She stated she felt like a murderer, and I suggested that if she felt so damn bad about it, do something different, and this is being judgemental to you.


...."this time of year I've got a short fuse as well it seems like, so I tend to get more opinionated."

I don't think it is only this time of the year you get opinionated and have a short fuse, I have read enough of your posts for a while to know that when someone might have a difference in opinion you have a truely short fuse and you go off, much like you have done in refernece to my spelling here and in chat. Don't like it, don't make a statement that yearns for an honest reply.


"I find nothing wrong with killing the mice before feeding. I do this every feeding day from crawlers to adults, I don't want to take a chance with my snakes being bitten however rare of a chance it may be. I don't feed live simply because I'm too lazy or squeamish to bop mice on the head. "

I find nothing wrong with that eithier, some prefer live, some prefer p/ked and that is with my own animals.



"And before you correct people on their spelling mistakes, have a look at yours in chat. Spell check making us look like good spellers doesn't count. I don't use it as a crutch, myself. If I make a typo, oh well. "

I use a spell checker from time to time ( obviously if you review any of my posts you will find errors in spelling to ). Whats your point? This girl is going to College at 35, and spells Kull the way they do with the comic book charactor. I don't even have a High School Education ( I have a GED ), I left school with a Gr9 education and a learning disability. So I think you need to keep your ideas about me to yourself about how I might spell on the fly. Like you, I might be doing 5 or 6 other things while I am on chat, and there is a difference when I actually sit down to try to articulate my perspective well, as I am sure it is that way for yourself too.

Take it for what you want to. I am happy in my shoes, and I am sure you are happy in yours. Keep in mind, I didn't judge the girl, as only God can judge us. I merely stated that if it bothers her so, then maybe this is not the hobby ( or what ever you wanna call it, insert your chosen word here ) for her.

This is one the threads that never ceases to bring out differences of opinion, whether it is here on a reptile site, some aquatic site, or some where's else. There is never any peace over this issue, because of most everyones unique feelings about the subject, which generally tears groups apart. There is no use for me to bother even replying to thread any more, because we agree that we do what we must do, and that is not being judgmental is it? We agree that the snakes must be feed, so don't come here expecting that everyone sees the issue the way you do, and don't be all mad, angry and butt hurt because someone has a difference of opinion or idea than yourself. I'm not upset or mad, nor has it changed my feelings about people and who I am because I offered up my pespective and opinion.

Ah well, I suspect this thread is eithier going to explode or die quietly, and hopefully Rich will just toast it into the deleted universe of deleted things. Ah well, C'est La Vie..

Regards

 

[coyote]

T or J,
YOU do sound "

all mad, angry and butt hurt because someone has a difference of opinion or idea than yourself."

This is just a comment; an observation.

 

[MastersHaven]

... This is just a comment; an observation.

:eek1: Be carefull Coyote...

We're not allowed to have those...

 

[MastersHaven]

Here we go again....

(and sense I am here)

TandJ...(pointing fingers now)

It appears to me the only finger pointing being done was by you.
so say what you will ... put on your little show to make you look all big and bad because I KNOW exactly what I meant and who I was saying it to and I didn't see a finger being pointed at anyone... as a matter of fact I type with all of my fingers, so I believe that would have been an impossible feat.

Ohhh and for me to back off your shoes you would first have to be wearing them, to do that you would need to pull atleast one of them out of your mouth!

Have a nice day!

Who judged who?

Personally, I think your intent was to point your finger at me, that leaves three pointing back at you. You’re assuming you know the type of person I am from reading my post, when in fact you know nothing about me when you have not even scratched the surface. Your assuming I have no feelings or compassion for the animal that is about to be lunch, your wrong there. It’s not a nice feeling to feed live to a snake, but pretty all they get is live, but I know the snake has to eat, so I can reason the life of the animal was not in vain. After all, what did I buy mice for to begin with? Your assumption is that I judged the original poster, sorry, the only judgment I see was directed at me, no matter how much you try to cover your tracks by saying it is not directed at anyone, but it is beyond obvious.

Kull is correctly spelled cull. I am not culling my mice stock out, they are breed for sustenance. I care for the mice as well as I care for any other animal. You’re assuming I have very little consciousness, and that is very hard for you to even begin to substantiate without even knowing me, which you couldn't possible do from reading a simple post.

My point was simple, if it causes a person so much distress to feed a critter, maybe you might find something else to do like stamp collecting or sewing, where life on life’s terms will not bother you to badly, or perhaps a nice prescription may help you through the bad days. Your assuming I have very little heart about the ending of an animals life, and like you, I have had to put a few animals down, which has caused more than a tear jerk from me, obviously I have feelings. If you clued in, I agreed with you, that we do what we have to do. So your argument was pretty well a moog point, leaving me wondering why you even bothered to get up into my grill.

In your esteemed words... we do what we have to do....
don't come down on someone for having a conscience!
there are a hell-of-alot worse things someone could have! My point exactly in response to you. Now please back off my shoes.

Regards

 

[Lennycorn]

Camille,

I know how you feel too.
When I freeze some fuzzy or pinks I don't like to think about it.
You got to to what you got to do!
No matter what time of year it is!

 

[Taceas]

And just because "I want to argue"...which I wasn't doing in my first post. Merely posting an observation over how you clearly judged her, so maybe you could see how your view was totally slanted the wrong direction.

There is never any peace over this issue

What issue is that? There was no issue over feeding live for feeding prekilled that I saw. Simply that she felt guilty for killing a child's former pets for her snakes' food. Last time I checked, that wasn't an issue that divided worlds. Well, until now.

Does it not make sense, that if you feel remorse and terrible guilt about offing some mice maybe this is not something for you to do?

No, it doesn't make sense. I feel remorse for every animal I take the life of. If someone DIDN'T feel anything for that animal they had just killed, I would wonder about them. I don't like taking their lives, no matter how small they may be, but the fact remains that's how I choose to feed my snakes.

I suggested that if she felt so damn bad about it, do something different, and this is being judgemental to you

The way you said it, it was very judgemental, as everyone had agreed it was. You analyzed her personality based on her post, just like we did of you, and you didn't like it very much. Pot, meet kettle.

Keep in mind, I didn't judge the girl, as only God can judge us

But you did judge her, you said if she feels bad for killing mice then perhaps she's in the wrong hobby. I don't care about what God thinks on the issue. That doesn't make your case seem all the better because God is the only judge, it sure hasn't stopped mankind from judging in his absence.

I don't think it is only this time of the year you get opinionated and have a short fuse, I have read enough of your posts for a while to know that when someone might have a difference in opinion you have a truely short fuse and you go off, much like you have done in refernece to my spelling here and in chat. Don't like it, don't make a statement that yearns for an honest reply

I don't deny I'm not opinionated throughout the year, its just this time of year I get more easily fed up with things and people, we all do. You'd actually be surprised how much stuff I read and don't reply to. I don't care when people have a difference of opinion, its the spice of life, and I do make my opinion known. I care when people jump down another person's throat for something so petty as feeling remorse for killing mice.

As for your spelling, I think again you must have smilies disabled or just aren't seeing them, I was jesting about the whole thing. Your spelling in chat is of a truly atrocious nature, and I wouldn't be the first to say so. Having 6 things going on at once isn't an excuse all of the time. So I just found it humorous that you corrected LeAnn on one word she mispelled. See also: =P.

I use a spell checker from time to time ( obviously if you review any of my posts you will find errors in spelling to ). Whats your point?

My point was to prove that kull was pretty much the only misspelled word in her post, and you made a point to point it out to her. I saw it and read past it. Pardon me for finding it humorous.

This girl is going to College at 35, and spells Kull the way they do with the comic book charactor.

So? If she's 35 and going to college, why do you keep calling her a girl? 35 and going to college doesn't mean squat in the grand scheme of things. Look at CornCrazy or JM, they're going to college at an older age as well...going to say they couldn't hack it the first time either? I didn't think so.

I don't even have a High School Education ( I have a GED ), I left school with a Gr9 education and a learning disability. So I think you need to keep your ideas about me to yourself about how I might spell on the fly

I'm not a mind reader, nor do I pretend to be one. I make inferences based on knowledge exhibited in posts/chat, like everyone else. It doesn't seem like you have a disability, and even so, when I'm around disabled people, I don't treat them as such. I treat them as people.

Like you, I might be doing 5 or 6 other things while I am on chat, and there is a difference when I actually sit down to try to articulate my perspective well, as I am sure it is that way for yourself too.

Not really. I may let punctuation lapse when I'm busy, but more or less how I chat is how I type in posts or any old thing I do that requires typing.

don't be all mad, angry and butt hurt because someone has a difference of opinion or idea than yourself

Who's mad, angry or "butt hurt" here? Not me.

I could care less if your opinion of killing mice is of no skin off your rear, I'm happy you don't feel empathy. But I care when you tell her she's less of a snake hobbyist for feeling sad about killing mice, which was the point I was trying to make all along.

:cheers:

 

[MastersHaven]

it's ok Misty...
I think this conversation is more like beating a dead horse...
It is clear that this battle is far beyond anything we have said or done...

apparently TandJ (pointing fingers) has some underlying issues that he/she feels he/she must discern others ethics and emotional ability.
To me this thread speaks for it's self..
let TandJ be all he/she can be!

It is apparent that TandJ felt threatened or even guilty because of what I said or he/she would not have lashed out at me in such a manner...

AND considering this person (TandJ) knows Sooooo much about me -- the comments about my schooling and spelling ability AND all the other things he/she felt compelled to bring into the conversation to cause me some sort of anguish, went right over my head. Yes, I am 35 years old and going to college, and whoah!!! I missspelled Kull (ohhh my, I did it again) hmmm ... kull...kull..kull.... I don't think I just hurt anyone by spelling it that way (what do you think?)

and TandJ.... just for the record I also have a learning disability that causes me to misspell things, it's called dyslexia
-- maybe you should look it up!!!! I think I do quiet well considering!

and just to clear up the question of my schooling (sense you brought it up) -- this is my second time around... The first time around I got a certificate in Animal health technologies with electives in small business management AND this time I am working towards an AAS, in Police Science).
As far as I know there are no age limits nor is it a crime to go back to college.
so ummmm... what was your excuse again???????

 

[2i2_D3gr33s]

Can't we all just get along??!!

 

[princess]

Well, at risk of getting this thread back on track!!

...Good on you for getting some free feeders...I wish I could!

I used to breed my own and quickly kill them before feeding and it was never fun or even pleasant, but you get used to it and your technique gets very efficient and quick and it becomes an unpleasant chore (much like spot cleaning) rather than a horrible ordeal with time. The trick is to not get too personal or think of the mice is cute little critters. I found it a lot easier to cull all the plain pink eyes whites which blended anony-mouse-ly into the crowd rather than the cute little broken patterned brindles and spotties...the cafe latte coloured ones were the hardest to kill BTW!

 

[Camille]

WOAH!!. talk about heavy arguments(i havent even read the thread yet :sidestep: . Yes the comment was ment as a tongue in cheek .ok now im going to read all the argument stuff

I really got the impression that the murderer comment was made tongue in cheek. I did notice something that resembled a smiley face up there...

 

[Camille]

OK i read all the posts too . and yes i feel more badly that it was a kids pet than anything else. But i dont feel that bad by putting them down since they die on contact.Mind you i do feel a bit of a twinge . But i have to get used to it since im becoming a vetrenary technician and they put down dogs and cats from time to time.i use blunt trauma to the head wich is what some people i know use AND the vet i do volunteer work for reccomended to me(that abd cervical dislocation). And as promissed i kept 3 of the mice. Also a update. One of the females had her babies BUT they were eaten. Im hoping it was the male and that he was not the father of the batch. Ill be checking for her next litter. if they are killed yet again ill have to put them down and just buy more mice(or rats if im moved out by then).

WOAH!!. talk about heavy arguments(i havent even read the thread yet :sidestep: . Yes the comment was ment as a tongue in cheek .ok now im going to read all the argument stuff