identifying ultramel

[antsterr]

I'm sure in a week or two I'll have a picture thread but I'd like some input to chew on right now.

Last year I bred together a normal female (het Amel, Caramel, Diffused) which I had produced 3 years before to fellow I picked up at an expo who was labled "het golddust diffused", so het amel OR ultra, caramel, and diffused. So I was quite happy to get out of that mix 4 caramels, 3 normals, 3 diffused and 2 ultramel diffused. I proved last year that he was indeed het ultra, not het amel. Or did I?
I kept one of those "ultramel diffused" as a hold back but this year with the exact same pairing I have some nice light ultramel-hypo looking fellows and what look like strait up amels coming out of the eggs. but but but.... how?

So I see four possibilities.
1. The father is not het ultra, but he and the mother are actually both het hypo and het amel and that the diffused one from last year is only a diffused hypo, not ultramel, and this year I'm getting both.
2. He is het ultra and some of the babies hatching just look more amel but are actually ultramel (they look amel but with a hint of grey, but as of this morning are still in their eggs, but look to have red eyes).
3. I mixed up my eggs/pairings and deserve a slap upside the head.
4. The father is actually ultramel, not, as I and the breeder I got him from believed, just a low black normal. Last year was just a fluke to not get any amels but this year I'm producing both (as one would expect from a het amel crossed with an ultramel).

So, I'm looking for someone in the know to explain what tells there are to distinguish ultramel from hypo. Also, can ultramel be so extreme at hatchling to look virtually amel?

I'll wait until they have their first shed and then I'll post an update then, any help in the mean time would be appreciated. My preoccupation with trying to solve this is today is killing me!

 

[Buzzard]

The best way to distinguish between them is to look at the iris (eye) pigmentation when they are hatchlings. When our ultramels were hatchlings they had a ruby red iris with a hint of blue in them. Hypos typically have darker irises. The eye pigmentation can change with ultramels as they age so the best time to tell is when they are hatchlings.

 

[antsterr]

Thanks Buzz, that should really help solve this.
Is it plausible to have have ultramels in the same clutch where one is a nice medium between normal and amel and another is almost indistinguishable from amel?

 

[Buzzard]

I dug up this old thread where we had our first ultramel in the clutch - it shows the mom, dad and the entire clutch. We asked basically the same questions that you have when we were trying to figure it out - hope this helps some.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112202

 

[antsterr]

Well, I'll wait and get some photo confirmation of the hatchings but upon looking at what I've got today, it looks like 1 normal, 1 caramel, 3 amels, 2 hypos?, 1 amber?, and 1 normal diffused.
Unless the father is ultramel (he was sold as "het ultramel" het ultra or amel), there is no way those 2 "hypos?" are anything but homo hypo and the "Amber?" could not possibly be golddust.

Below are pictures of the father and mother

Father "Yosemite" from golddust diffused x unknown

Mother "Oscarmeyer" hatched from a butter het hypo x diffused

 

[antsterr]

Hera are a couple of fresh out of the egg pictures

Amel or butter, possibly putting an end to my ultramel/golddust hopes

Here is one of the hypo ones

What I presume is an amber

And for fun, here is the family picture.