inbreeding question?

[Jevard]

i hear of ppl talking about breeding sibling snakes periodicaly but.. i dont hear of ill affects of it? are there any?

 

[michael couture]

From what I've heard, although I haven't started breeding yet. That it is sometimes essential to breed back into the family, to carry on new gene mutations. But Like any inbreeding I believe this also makes it more likely to carry on the bad traits of the line too, kinks, or other deformities.
I'm not 100% but that's what I've read, and I think it's true, although I may be wrong so feel free to add or correct me if I'm wrong

 

[waldo]

I've not started to breed yet but I don't agree with inbreeding. The only way I would ever do it is in the unlikely case of a new gene popping up in my collection and even then, as soon as the gene was proven, no more inbreeding would be done.

 

[michael couture]

I agree, and the likelyhood of a new gene is so low, I don't think it happens much.

 

[Jevard]

very true with all the different morphs there are there doesnt seem to be many new ones to develope . but you never know, what abouty to perfect a favord gene like you get a pettern you like but its not complete but you have it in 2 snakes.

 

[Jevard]

very true with all the different morphs there are there doesnt seem to be many new ones to develope . but you never know, what abouty to perfect a favord gene like you get a pettern you like but its not complete but you have it in 2 snakes.

i need to work on my writing skills BUT im not sure

 

[Susan]

In-breeding, or line-breeding, is sometimes the only way for a single breeder to create some of the wonderful morph combinations that we have and will get in the future. But once a mew morph has been created, out-crossing is basically essential to prevent some of the less desirable genetic mutations from showing up. But that usually takes several generations of in-breeding closely related snakes. Yes, I've bred full- and half-siblings together and will also breed their offspring together. But I will also add new blood as often as possible along the way. Without in-breeding and line-breeding, I would not have had these hatch out this year, if ever:

 

[Drizzt80]

Since the first amelanisitic (red albino) cornsnake was hatched on August 31st, 1961, there are at least 15 other confirmed recessive genetic traits (Stripe/Motley, Anery, Charcoal, Lavender, Caramel, Bloodred, Hypo, Sunkissed, Lava, Dilute, Pied Side**, Ashy/Cinder/Z, Ultra***, Tessera**)*.

That's an average of 1 new trait found every 3.13 years since the first (Amel) gene was found!! :eek1: Considering it takes a minimum of two years, and a preferable 3 years, to have a snake ready for breeding, it would seem that inbreeding/line-breeding will still be a necessary method to finding new mutations . . . because let's be honest, we've only seen the tip of the ice-berg!!

D80

*List doesn't include the questionable/unknown genetic influences either currently being "tested" or seen visually such as Strawberry Hypo, Christmas Hypo, Atzec/ZagTec/Zipper/ZigZag, Banded, Vanishing Stripe, Cubed, etc. etc. etc.

**As close to confirmed as we can currently be.

***Located at the same loci as Amel.

 

[Em Wright]

Susan those babies are absolutely beautiful! I'm taking an uneducated guess and saying the first one is a lavender stripe? Or am I completely off? I'm not entirely sure what the second one is, I can't even formulate an intelligent guess so I'll just ask!

I'm not so into line breeding, but I understand its use. Will I ever line breed? It's possible, it really depends on what happens with the clutches I produce when my snakes are old enough to begin breeding projects.

 

[Susan]

Susan those babies are absolutely beautiful! I'm taking an uneducated guess and saying the first one is a lavender stripe? Or am I completely off? I'm not entirely sure what the second one is, I can't even formulate an intelligent guess so I'll just ask!

Thanks! The first is a dilute anery stripe female and the second is a Sunkissed anery male. I hope to eventually pair the two at least once, just for giggles, and yes, I will be pairing their offspring with each other in hopes of getting dilute anery Sunkissed stripes. Oh, and both are possibly het hypo, so that should really make things interesting!

 

[Em Wright]

I'm looking forward to seeing their offspring and of course progress pics as they grow.

 

[kathylove]

So far, the posts are only addressing single, recessive mutations. Those are EASY to recapture with a little inbreeding, and then outcross from there. But what about the much more difficult selectively bred appearances that are probably controlled by MANY genes? Like the best candycanes and okeetees, for example?

My okeetees are somewhat inbred, and I am often breeding cousins or half sibs to each other to produce the best babies. But this past year, I used a wild caught (caught by Bill) male right from the middle of okeetee land. He had nice color, but not very thick borders. But since he was a locality animal and unrelated to mine, I bred him to a couple of my best females to outcross. I will keep a few babies, but no way are they are nice as my "inbred" strain. So I will have to take the outcrossed babies and breed them back into my strain, back and forth until I get the look back again, but have babies that are less inbred than previously. And I will do that occasionally whenever I find a somewhat worthy animal that is probably unrelated, or less related to mine. Unless it is wild caught though, it is pretty difficult to say for sure, because I have sold so many over the years that they could come from anywhere in the US and be fairly closely related to mine.

But I believe that is pretty much how all breeders of domestic animals try to upgrade their stock over time, as they try to reach some goal, whether it is to get a certain look, or a line that produces more milk or eggs, or some other goal.

Note: This post actually took me a couple of hours (or maybe more!) because of a car that had to be towed, the phone ringing constantly, and a bunch of other distractions. So there may have been other replies while I have been working on it, that might say some of what I just said. I will check AFTER I post it, so won't know until then whether or not this post is redundant.

 

[tyflier]

Line breeding is almost a necessity today if one wishes to produce new combinations of recessives or improve upon a certain "look". Hurricane motley, vanishing stripe, miami phase, okeetee phase, cubed, aztec, zipper, zigzag...these are all line-bred looks that virtually require linebreeding for developement.

Of course, out-crossing is recommended in order to avoid genetic disorders. But without linebreeding, none of the above looks would have been able to be developed to the xtent that they have...

 

[michael couture]

I love the sunkissed anery, the pattern and contrast of white/black is way different than normal anery's. I wonder what a ghost-sunkissed, or caramel-sunkissed would look like. Congradulations, you must be thrilled.

 

[Jevard]

In-breeding, or line-breeding, is sometimes the only way for a single breeder to create some of the wonderful morph combinations that we have and will get in the future. But once a mew morph has been created, out-crossing is basically essential to prevent some of the less desirable genetic mutations from showing up. But that usually takes several generations of in-breeding closely related snakes. Yes, I've bred full- and half-siblings together and will also breed their offspring together. But I will also add new blood as often as possible along the way. Without in-breeding and line-breeding, I would not have had these hatch out this year, if ever:

_dilute_anery_stripe_-_F_-_8-10_-_A.jpg[/IMG]

_Sunkissed_anery_-_F_-_8-14_-_B.jpg[/IMG]

i guess to produce such beauty in a snake inbreeding favored traits is necesary