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Just a little advice please .....

U

ukjamie

New member
Hi

i have kept 2 corns for 2 years and last year they mated and i had 2 fine hatchlings ,

this year though they have mated early which some people think i have forced them too but i can assure you i havent i have just started turning the heat up and this morning i caught them at it.

The only difference is this year there is some blood during mating and im concerned, i dont breed on purpose and bought the pair as hatchlings at different times so it was only luck i got a male and female.

Any help or addvice would be much appreciated



thanks in advance


A worried owner

Jamie
 
Welcome to the forum.

If you keep them in separate enclosures, you won't have to worry about this. The health risk to a female associated with undersized breeding is one of the major reasons most keepers discourage cohabitation. If you do a search on the word 'cohabitation' in the husbandry forum, you'll see tons of stuff about it. Many, myself included, would recommend that two snakes never really come in contact with each other except for intentional breeding purposes.
 
I agree - you should separate them. If the female becomes gravid she certainly won't want the male hassling her when she's trying to look for somewhere to lay, and she could become gravid again immediately after laying, which would put great stress on her.

As regards the blood, I believe a small amount during mating does sometimes occur. If there's no obvious damage to the vent areas and the bleeding has stopped, I would guess it's ok.
 
thanks for your help

i do seperate them until the eggsa are layed and then they spend the rest of the year together as i said if they didnt breed i wouldnt be bothered, i have these two lovely animals as pets really ,

if your interested one is a snow corn and the other is an amelystic


again thanks for the help
 
Jag 32, thank you for posting that link. I was very interested in Kathy's opinion. As usual, very intelligent and sensible - I like the way she acknowledges that all corns and situations are different - there are too many people who see things in black and white and in a generally unintelligent way.

Jamie, that's good that you separate them after breeding and I wish you the best of luck. You should get some nice amel babies... make sure you post some pics! :)
 
Jessica71 said:
...I like the way she acknowledges that all corns and situations are different - there are too many people who see things in black and white and in a generally unintelligent way.
Click to expand...

I like the fact that she avoids blanket statements too. However, what you call seeing things in black and white, can also be interpreted as a lack of willingness to invite risk, however small. I wouldn't call this "generally unintelligent". Cohabitation provides zero benefit to a corn snake, but invites certain risks. They are NOT social animals. Any possible benefit is to the keeper alone. A keeper who believes that their communally housed corns enjoy each other's company is deluding him/herself.

I used to do it. Almost killed a tiny little Miami female who became gravid at about 180g. And those were 180 skinny grams. The snake was skinny because it was a very timid feeder. In general, this girl was always very nervous and obviously stressed. In hindsight, this isn't surprising considering that she was housed with three other much larger adults. I'm pretty sure that some of this stress contributed to a number of regurges from her. Of course, I can't be certain that the regurges were actually hers. Could've been any snake in that tank. I never saw incidences of cannibalism, even among communally housed hatchlings, but I've seen enough photos that I can't deny that it happens.

So through lots of personal experience I've seen the black, white, and grays associated with this topic. Using this experience, and the info gleaned from much additional research, I've concluded that I will no longer cohabitate corns.

Just my $.02.
 
Roy Munson said:
Cohabitation provides zero benefit to a corn snake, but invites certain risks. They are NOT social animals. Any possible benefit is to the keeper alone. A keeper who believes that their communally housed corns enjoy each other's company is deluding him/herself.
Click to expand...
nicely put, I've read a few posts on this and other forums with people claiming the corns 'enjoy the company' because they are always in the same hide
 
ukjamie said:
thanks for your help

i do seperate them until the eggsa are layed and then they spend the rest of the year together as i said if they didnt breed i wouldnt be bothered, i have these two lovely animals as pets really ,

if your interested one is a snow corn and the other is an amelystic


again thanks for the help
Click to expand...
It's going to bug me if I don't ask - do you separate them so she can lay her eggs and then put them back together afterwards? Maybe I'm reading this wrong. If you do why not just keep them separated? Then you won't ever have to worry about eggs or health issues associated with it. You obviously have a second enclosure to separate the male out so why not make it his permanent home? If you have them together they will breed. That's what males and females do together. They could possibly breed more than once a year as well so putting them back together after the first clutch is just as bad as housing them together in the first place IMO.

~Katie

(If I was reading that wrong please ignore my rant)
 
Roy, I can see your point about keeping a young female with more than one bigger snake of the other sex. This is different from keeping two similar sized, same sex adults together and carefully observing their behaviour for any signs of stress, after owning them and knowing their traits for some time. There is more than one possible way of keeping corns, and such a thing as a calculated risk. That was all I was trying to say. People can disagree, and that's fine - some people are more cautious than others. That - like most things - has advantages and disadvantages.

I didn't mean to say that everyone who decides not to take that risk is unintelligent. I just agree with Kathy that there are options and decisions.
 
One of my pairs had a bit of bleeding last week when they mated, don't know which one it was from but both are fine now and were after, closed vents no obvious signs of whom the blood had come from so unless it's continual then i wouldn't worry too much i think it just happens sometimes when the male gets a bit rough.

Rach
 
I agree with ALMOST everything said by Roy M. I keep mine separate all of the time myself. But I have been contemplating for quite a while the idea of building a few big habitats with several micro climate / habitats for the snakes to choose temps, light, humidity, etc, for themselves. The only way I can justify the space and expense is if I build it for more than one animal. It will be big enough that they will have the ability to interact, or not. So the question is not whether it is better to have only one snake in the habitat (it probably would be better, but not by much). The real question is whether the snakes would be better off in a plastic box alone, or in a habitat with a lot more choices and exercise, but with cagemates. If the snakes are chosen carefully, I believe the answer is probably the big viv. But if the question were "is it better to have one snake in a plastic box, or 2 in a box twice as big?", then the answer is more likely, keep them singly.

Nobody (well, almost nobody) has unlimited funds and space. And nothing we do is without risk (especially when we get into a car and onto a road, which most people do without even thinking about!) So I think everything we do should have a risk vs benefit calculation before we make our decision.

It is true that most of the time the only benefit in housing together is keeper convenience. And it is true that ALMOST all of the time, it is better to keep them separate, because there is no real benefit to the snakes by keeping them together. And that is ESPECIALLY true of the beginner herper - the person who MOST needs to keep them separate, is unfortunately, the most likely to keep them together. BUT - there are some exceptions and that is why I "never say never", lol!
 
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